In a message dated 11/24/1999 6:32:41 PM Mountain Standard Time, RSKUNTER writes: << n a message dated 11/23/1999 1:42:35 PM Mountain Standard Time, jonee@epix.net writes: << A minor point but I believe I understand that the terrestrial iron when found, is not natively pure like gold or copper can be. The distinction between alloy and compound blurs. >> Hi Elton Jones and List, My first reply to the list and you all, so hello. A comment of hopeful interest is that both native gold and copper contain trace other elements which can be distinguished between sites and locations oof occurrences. At one stage, I was employed as a metallurgist for a Western Australian company and used an electron microprobe for process mineralogy in support of the company mines. One of the recurring problems the company had at its gold operations was the theft of native gold (mineralogical term is electrum). This gold often turned up for sale elsewhere or was "processed" through state batteries (state operated stamp mills for small miners) from a valid small claim. There were some small claims (mines) that had a tremendous production from a very small tonnage. Once processed through the state battery, the legal ownership was transferred to the owner of the claim whose ore was being processed, a way of laundering gold. The state battery allowed the owner of the ore being processed to keep the gravity/amalgam recovered gold which he was required to clean and retort himself and shared the recovery of the gold from the follow-on cyanidation circuit which recovered the fine gold. Microprobe examination of electrum from the companies mines indicated unique signature amounts of trace elements occurring with the gold in the electrum that allowed specific identification of native gold (electrum) from its mineralogical source. Gold is alloyed commonly with silver, copper, iron, and a variety of other elements mostly in trace amounts. Naturally occurring gold, i.e., native gold or electrum, will not be pure gold but will have other elements alloyed with it. High grade pure gold will be the result of human refining. Almost all high grade gold will be produced as the result of chlorination of molten dore bullion which will form chlorides of silver, copper, and iron prior to the formation of gold chlorides. The resultant intermediately pure gold, 99.5% gold, is further refined electrolytically in Thumb cells to 99.99% gold. There are parallels in copper. At one time, native copper was mined from the Kewinau (sp?) peninsula of Michigan in such quantities and with known impurities that it was marketed separately on world trade markets as Lake Copper. This area was also know to the Indians prior to its larger scale mining history; they used the native copper for trading and to produce artifacts for their own use. It was sufficiently high grade copper than it was fairly malleable and could be shaped. It would work harden which was useful for weapons as with sufficient working they would keep their edge. Hope the above discussion was of some interest. I realize that it is somewhat afield of the discussions of meteorites, however the discussion of naturally occurring alloys is germane to the understanding that very few areas of life or nature are completely black or white. I have enjoyed the discussions on the meteorites. I came across "The List" while doing some background searches on the Leonids. I am old enough to part of the original "Moon-Watch" teams to help determine the first satellite orbits. It is good to be back. I have noticed that there are several of the list that have addresses in Lakewood or the Denver area. Do you have any actual stores (i.e., Mile High Meteorites) or is it all virtual? I live on Lookout Mountain just west of Denver and would enjoy saying hello and looking at some meteorite specimens if any of you are willing. Regards >>
-- BEGIN included message
- To: jonee@epix.net
- Subject: Re: Geo vs Astro chemistry Errata
- From: RSKUNTER@aol.com
- Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 20:32:41 EST
- CC: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
- Full-name: RSKUNTER
In a message dated 11/23/1999 1:42:35 PM Mountain Standard Time, jonee@epix.net writes: << A minor point but I believe I understand that the terrestrial iron when found, is not natively pure like gold or copper can be. The distinction between alloy and compound blurs. >> Hi Elton Jones and List, My first reply to the list and you all, so hello. A comment of hopeful interest is that both native gold and copper contain trace other elements which can be distinguished between sites and locations oof occurrences. At one stage, I was employed as a metallurgist for a Western Australian company and used an electron microprobe for process mineralogy in support of the company mines. One of the recurring problems the company had at its gold operations was the theft of native gold (mineralogical term is electrum). This gold often turned up for sale elsewhere or was "processed" through state batteries (state operated stamp mills for small miners) from a valid small claim. There were some small claims (mines) that had a tremendous production from a very small tonnage. Once processed through the state battery, the legal ownership was transferred to the owner of the claim whose ore was being processed, a way of laundering gold. The state battery allowed the owner of the ore being processed to keep the gravity/amalgam recovered gold which he was required to clean and retort himself and shared the recovery of the gold from the follow-on cyanidation circuit which recovered the fine gold. Microprobe examination of electrum from the companies mines indicated unique signature amounts of trace elements occurring with the gold in the electrum that allowed specific identification of native gold (electrum) from its mineralogical source. Gold is alloyed commonly with silver, copper, iron, and a variety of other elements mostly in trace amounts. Naturally occurring gold, i.e., native gold or electrum, will not be pure gold but will have other elements alloyed with it. High grade pure gold will be the result of human refining. Almost all high grade gold will be produced as the result of chlorination of molten dore bullion which will form chlorides of silver, copper, and iron prior to the formation of gold chlorides. The resultant intermediately pure gold, 99.5% gold, is further refined electrolytically in Thumb cells to 99.99% gold. There are parallels in copper. At one time, native copper was mined from the Kewinau (sp?) peninsula of Michigan in such quantities and with known impurities that it was marketed separately on world trade markets as Lake Copper. This area was also know to the Indians prior to its larger scale mining history; they used the native copper for trading and to produce artifacts for their own use. It was sufficiently high grade copper than it was fairly malleable and could be shaped. It would work harden which was useful for weapons as with sufficient working they would keep their edge. Hope the above discussion was of some interest. I realize that it is somewhat afield of the discussions of meteorites, however the discussion of naturally occurring alloys is germane to the understanding that very few areas of life or nature are completely black or white. I have enjoyed the discussions on the meteorites. I came across "The List" while doing some background searches on the Leonids. I am old enough to part of the original "Moon-Watch" teams to help determine the first satellite orbits. It is good to be back. I have noticed that there are several of the list that have addresses in Lakewood or the Denver area. Do you have any actual stores (i.e., Mile High Meteorites) or is it all virtual? I live on Lookout Mountain just west of Denver and would enjoy saying hello and looking at some meteorite specimens if any of you are willing. Regards and Happy Thanksgiving to You All Richard Kunter, rskunter@aol.com
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