[meteorite-list] Jalu meteorite and Carion practices
From: Mark Miconi <mam602_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 09:44:13 2004 Message-ID: <001e01c0f84d$715a7de0$04f20541_at_fwlr1.az.home.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C0F812.C4A7B980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bravo Stu!=20 One thing you left out...When viewed from space the Earth has no lines = drawn on it. It is one planet, the lines that people draw on maps to say = they own part of it are just foolish reminders of how petty we are to = believe that we can actually own something we can not even take care of. = So far all we have done is ruin most of it.=20 Meteorites aren't from Arizona, or the Sahara...They are from space, = last map of the universe I saw didn't have any stupid boundry lines = drawn on it. I imagine someday there will be.=20 For now Space belongs to everyone, and so should the matter that has the = bad luck of running into this Earth.=20 My two cents....Mark=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: STUARTATK_at_aol.com=20 To: meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com=20 Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Jalu meteorite and Carion practices Hi all,=20 I know I'm not one of the List's "experts", and my own collection = would (and=20 does!) fit in a computer disk box, and all *my* hunting is done on my = local=20 hills and up and down their dry stone walls, but I wanted to put a=20 "beginner"'s point of view here.=20 I may be missing something here, but sorry, I'm having trouble with = this=20 whole "plundering" thing. Seems to me that until a meteorite is = actively=20 looked for, located, and identified as a meteorite it's just a *ROCK*, = it=20 just sits there doing nothing, looking... all black, and rock-like, = and is=20 available to anyone and everyone who makes the effort to go out = looking for=20 it, whether it's in the Sahara, Antarctica or Arizona. Regardless of = who owns=20 the fall site, if no-one actually goes looking for a fallen meteorite = it=20 stays there, as a rock, and no-one's any the wiser or any the richer - = or=20 poorer.=20 Correct me if I'm wrong someone, but after all these years of = publicity, the=20 Govts of desert countries / wilderness areas which have come to be = known as=20 good meteorite hunting- and recovery locations must surely KNOW = they're=20 sitting on a valuable resource, so surely it's their responsibility to = make=20 the effort to exploit that resource, by organising - or funding - = search=20 parties to harvest their riches and then capitalise on them, either = using=20 them for scientific research or selling them on, their choice. If they = are=20 happy to just sit on their hands and let the meteorites rust in the = sand then=20 I'm sorry, but I can't feel too sorry for them. Some will say they = can't=20 afford it. Fair point. I'm sure many can't fund large scale = expeditions, etc.=20 But I'm equally sure that they could encourage the local populace to = go out=20 on their behalf, offering rewards etc. And as for the local = populations=20 themselves, you can't tell me that people who live in these areas = aren't=20 aware of the value of the rocks found in the desert: apart from all = those=20 bazar shops with shelves groaning under the weight of meteorites, from = the=20 sound of it the Sahara is crawling with collectors, and I'm sure they = can't=20 *all* be camouflaged or sneaking around like NAVY SEALS ;-) People = must=20 *know* they're there and so will *know* that money is "out there" = amongst the=20 dunes - so what's to stop them from going out there and collecting for = themselves?=20 If meteorites, anywhere, aren't hunted down and collected by *someone* = then=20 they're lost to *everyone*, collectors and researchers alike. Yes = there are=20 rules, and we should obey them, treat people fairly, etc. But I really = am=20 having a hard time feeling too sorry for Sahara / wherever dwellers = who,=20 knowing they have a chance to capitalise on this, don't take it. (Not = too=20 long ago there were howls of indignation on the List when someone from = -=20 Belgium? I think it was - complained about how a local fall was = collected by=20 outsiders before a local search effort had been organised.) And again, = I may=20 be offering a rather simplistic view here, if so I'm sorry, it is not = my=20 intention to put anyone's nose out of joint here or to offend anyone, = I said=20 I was no expert. I have nothing but respect and admiration for = *everyone* on=20 this List. I just don't see how "plundering" is appropriate. =20 When we go to Mars we're going to find meteorites there, almost = certainly=20 many pieces of Earth rock among them, maybe even some pieces of = terrestrial=20 rock blasted out of the crust in the KT impact which killed-off the = dinosaurs=20 ... wow, imagine that... but they won't just be lying around for all = to see,=20 they'll have to be hunted-down, pursued, just like meteorites here on = Earth,=20 and when martian colonists stand outside their Habs in 2069, gazing at = the=20 beautiful sight of Halley's Comet shining close to the Earth in the = sunset=20 sky, they're not going to be moaning about Mars having been = "plundered", that=20 won't happen, because they'll have got off their backsides and = collected them=20 themselves, shipping the most common ones back to Earth to raise funds = to=20 help pay for their Colony's expansion, putting the rarest ones in a = museum,=20 and using the more unusual-looking ones for sculptures and jewelery.=20 What's that got to do with this thread? Well, I'm sure that somewhere = out=20 there in Arizona, the Sahara, Antarctica or Siberia there's a "Holy = Grail"=20 martian meteorite just waiting to be discovered, a piece of Mars rock=20 containing absolutely conclusive proof of the existence of native = martian=20 life, but the fact is it's not going to walk into a lab with its hands = up and=20 turn itself in, the Universe isn't that kind, or stupid, She makes us = work=20 for our discoveries and glories. That's why meteorites, unfortunately, = do not=20 fall softly and conveniently into the car parks of museums and labs; = they=20 fall in god-forsaken deserts, onto barren ice fields and glaciers, and = only=20 surrender themselves to the people with the determination, dedication = and=20 sheer bloody-mindedness to look for them after much gritting of teeth, = mopping of brows and howls of frustration.=20 All I'm saying is that there has to be a way to collect meteorites = from these=20 "challenging" locations fairly and with respect... but they're there = for=20 *everyone* to find, locals or Air-Miles collecting foreigners, you = know?=20 Respectfully,=20 Stu=20 ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C0F812.C4A7B980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bravo Stu! </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>One thing you left out...When viewed = from space the=20 Earth has no lines drawn on it. It is one planet, the lines that people = draw on=20 maps to say they own part of it are just foolish reminders of how petty = we are=20 to believe that we can actually own something we can not even take care = of. So=20 far all we have done is ruin most of it. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Meteorites aren't from Arizona, or the=20 Sahara...They are from space, last map of the universe I saw didn't have = any=20 stupid boundry lines drawn on it. I imagine someday there will be. = </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For now Space belongs to everyone, and = so should=20 the matter that has the bad luck of running into this Earth. = </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My two cents....Mark </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A href=3D"mailto:STUARTATK_at_aol.com"=20 title=3DSTUARTATK_at_aol.com>STUARTATK@aol.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20 href=3D"mailto:meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com"=20 = title=3Dmeteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>meteorite-list@meteoritecentr= al.com</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 18, 2001 = 12:46=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [meteorite-list] = Jalu=20 meteorite and Carion practices</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>Hi all, = <BR><BR>I know=20 I'm not one of the List's "experts", and my own collection would (and=20 <BR>does!) fit in a computer disk box, and all *my* hunting is done on = my=20 local <BR>hills and up and down their dry stone walls, but I wanted to = put a=20 <BR>"beginner"'s point of view here. <BR><BR>I may be missing = something here,=20 but sorry, I'm having trouble with this <BR>whole "plundering" thing. = Seems to=20 me that until a meteorite is actively <BR>looked for, located, and = identified=20 as a meteorite it's just a *ROCK*, it <BR>just sits there doing = nothing,=20 looking... all black, and rock-like, and is <BR>available to anyone = and=20 everyone who makes the effort to go out looking for <BR>it, whether = it's in=20 the Sahara, Antarctica or Arizona. Regardless of who owns <BR>the fall = site,=20 if no-one actually goes looking for a fallen meteorite it <BR>stays = there, as=20 a rock, and no-one's any the wiser or any the richer - or <BR>poorer.=20 <BR><BR>Correct me if I'm wrong someone, but after all these years of=20 publicity, the <BR>Govts of desert countries / wilderness areas which = have=20 come to be known as <BR>good meteorite hunting- and recovery locations = must=20 surely KNOW they're <BR>sitting on a valuable resource, so surely it's = their=20 responsibility to make <BR>the effort to exploit that resource, by = organising=20 - or funding - search <BR>parties to harvest their riches and then = capitalise=20 on them, either using <BR>them for scientific research or selling them = on,=20 their choice. If they are <BR>happy to just sit on their hands and let = the=20 meteorites rust in the sand then <BR>I'm sorry, but I can't feel too = sorry for=20 them. Some will say they can't <BR>afford it. Fair point. I'm sure = many can't=20 fund large scale expeditions, etc. <BR>But I'm equally sure that they = could=20 encourage the local populace to go out <BR>on their behalf, offering = rewards=20 etc. And as for the local populations <BR>themselves, you can't tell = me that=20 people who live in these areas aren't <BR>aware of the value of the = rocks=20 found in the desert: apart from all those <BR>bazar shops with shelves = groaning under the weight of meteorites, from the <BR>sound of it the = Sahara=20 is crawling with collectors, and I'm sure they can't <BR>*all* be = camouflaged=20 or sneaking around like NAVY SEALS ;-) People must <BR>*know* they're = there=20 and so will *know* that money is "out there" amongst the <BR>dunes - = so what's=20 to stop them from going out there and collecting for <BR>themselves?=20 <BR><BR>If meteorites, anywhere, aren't hunted down and collected by = *someone*=20 then <BR>they're lost to *everyone*, collectors and researchers alike. = Yes=20 there are <BR>rules, and we should obey them, treat people fairly, = etc. But I=20 really am <BR>having a hard time feeling too sorry for Sahara / = wherever=20 dwellers who, <BR>knowing they have a chance to capitalise on this, = don't take=20 it. (Not too <BR>long ago there were howls of indignation on the List = when=20 someone from - <BR>Belgium? I think it was - complained about how a = local fall=20 was collected by <BR>outsiders before a local search effort had been=20 organised.) And again, I may <BR>be offering a rather simplistic view = here, if=20 so I'm sorry, it is not my <BR>intention to put anyone's nose out of = joint=20 here or to offend anyone, I said <BR>I was no expert. I have = nothing but=20 respect and admiration for *everyone* on <BR>this List. I just don't = see how=20 "plundering" is appropriate. <BR><BR>When we go to Mars we're = going to=20 find meteorites there, almost certainly <BR>many pieces of Earth rock = among=20 them, maybe even some pieces of terrestrial <BR>rock blasted out of = the crust=20 in the KT impact which killed-off the dinosaurs <BR>... wow, = imagine=20 that... but they won't just be lying around for all to see, = <BR>they'll have=20 to be hunted-down, pursued, just like meteorites here on Earth, = <BR>and when=20 martian colonists stand outside their Habs in 2069, gazing at the=20 <BR>beautiful sight of Halley's Comet shining close to the Earth in = the sunset=20 <BR>sky, they're not going to be moaning about Mars having been = "plundered",=20 that <BR>won't happen, because they'll have got off their backsides = and=20 collected them <BR>themselves, shipping the most common ones back to = Earth to=20 raise funds to <BR>help pay for their Colony's expansion, putting the = rarest=20 ones in a museum, <BR>and using the more unusual-looking ones for = sculptures=20 and jewelery. <BR><BR>What's that got to do with this thread? Well, = I'm sure=20 that somewhere out <BR>there in Arizona, the Sahara, Antarctica or = Siberia=20 there's a "Holy Grail" <BR>martian meteorite just waiting to be = discovered, a=20 piece of Mars rock <BR>containing absolutely conclusive proof of the = existence=20 of native martian <BR>life, but the fact is it's not going to walk = into a lab=20 with its hands up and <BR>turn itself in, the Universe isn't that = kind, or=20 stupid, She makes us work <BR>for our discoveries and glories. That's = why=20 meteorites, unfortunately, do not <BR>fall softly and conveniently = into the=20 car parks of museums and labs; they <BR>fall in god-forsaken deserts, = onto=20 barren ice fields and glaciers, and only <BR>surrender themselves to = the=20 people with the determination, dedication and <BR>sheer = bloody-mindedness to=20 look for them after much gritting of teeth, <BR>mopping of brows and = howls of=20 frustration. <BR><BR>All I'm saying is that there has to be a way to = collect=20 meteorites from these <BR>"challenging" locations fairly and with = respect...=20 but they're there for <BR>*everyone* to find, locals or Air-Miles = collecting=20 foreigners, you know? <BR><BR>Respectfully, <BR><BR>Stu=20 <BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C0F812.C4A7B980-- Received on Mon 18 Jun 2001 07:21:45 PM PDT |
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