[meteorite-list] Cost of Moroccan meteorites

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From: Rob and Colleen <iguana_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 09:44:15 2004
Message-ID: <3B3D4C9E.6C75D06F_at_pcez.com>

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Jim Strope wrote:

> ...This grading of material and offering higher prices is what is disturbing
> some of the earlier buyers who bought rare material for pennies per gram and
> tried to sell it to you for 100s of dollars per gram. This is what is
> making them mad. The prices of all Moroccan meteorites have gone up
> considerably, even the common stuff.

-This really doesn't answer the question. I would expect the price to up along
with demand and certainly if the nomads knew the true value of the material in
today's collector market.

>
>
> When Mike Farmer and I bought NWA 482 in January, the price per gram was so
> high that we were chastised by some European dealers for paying so much in
> the field. We did not know it was Lunar at the time. We guessed it was a
> Howardite or possibly a Eucrite. If it had turned out to be a Eucrite we
> would have been lucky to just get our money back. We took a chance. NWA
> 482 had been offered to French and German dealers before us but they
> declined to pay the price. I guess in retrospect they are kicking
> themselves for that decision. Would you believe that even after
> classification and verification that it was Lunar that Mike was scolded
> again in Paris because we paid too much and were driving up the prices.?

> -Simple math. The way I see it, NWA 482 before the cutting loss and scientific
> donation had an estimated value of 4-4.5 million dollars based on the opening
> offers to the public. A gamble yes, as it could have been a Eucrite worth much
> less, but still quite valuable. To be chastised for approximating the true
> worth of the material speaks volumes for the one chastising.

> Hell, I will pay a fair price for rare material in Morocco or any other
> country for rare material.

-What is fair for a suspected OC, HED, an iron?
-What are they asking

The recent thread has been intriguing from my standpoint, a collector who buys a
little extra from the dealers on this list and sells a little on eBay to recoup
on the price of the piece I want, far from profit other than cheaper meteorites
in the long run. The business of collecting.

The argument of the faction in support of indigenous people's land rights is
that those who obtain permits and hunt for themselves are stealing from the
mouths of the nomads. They argue that they are contributing to the livelihood
of these nomads, and on this point I agree. The nomads are getting paid. But
what does happen when ultra valuable material is brought back to the US, are the
nomads further compensated or does the money go to a consortium of investors
bent on the next venture. Again, I am asking, I do not know these answers. Human
nature, however, is leaning me toward the belief that the nomads are getting
the short end. While they are making money, and more than their collective
ancestors ever did, I doubt they are getting even close to the value of the
material they are out walking in some the the harshest conditions on the planet
to collect and drag to some market. Now I am fully aware that such is the case
in any business. The laborers don't get paid the same as the man at the desk.
The migrant worker who picks berries makes more than his parents ever did but he
will never be able to go into business for himself. Agreed. But the level of
argument in this scenario has escalated to the point that those who argue for
the people are a bit misguided in my book. The nomads are stymied by the fact
that capitation among dealers only reaches a certain level and the hunters, at
least they are doing the work, just grab what they want and pay the government
instead of the people. For reasons I can not understand, the nomads have no
internal representation to the outside world, certainly no world famous
meteorite gurus, yet they have the richest free market supply in the world.
Maybe they are happy to get what they they get, but they are sitting on a gold
mine.

Eventually the Sahara supply will start to dry up, the history of this science
will pay attention to this time, and names will be remembered. Nininger, Monnig,
Dupont, believe me when I say this.

On many levels, Sahara meteorites are a double edged sword. Some mistakes have
already been made and will never be resolved. Others haven't happened yet. The
folks in the field (buyers and hunters and nomads) need to evaluate which side
of this sword they are on and how they want to be remembered, not what the other
guy is doing. History will worry about the other guy. Collectors will pay what
they decide to pay regardless of the collection practices of the dealer and will
certainly be remembered as a collective.

To the chastiser, had to make up a word, mentioned way earlier in this rant of
mine, you really need to sit down and take a breath, and hold it.

The rest of the groups in the field, be excellent. Worry about yourself and the
rest will take care of itself. No one likes a cheap meteorite more than me, but
what is the cost to the Sahara when we put a new piece on our shelf?

My two cents, even though no one offered a penny for my thoughts. Feel free to
set me straight.
Rob Wesel

> Jim Strope
> 421 Fourth Street
> Glen Dale, WV 26038
>
> THE FRESHEST AND ONLY ORIENTED LUNAR METEORITE IN THE WORLD:
> http://www.nwa482.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob King" <lakewind_at_infi.net>
> To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 8:38 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Cost of Moroccan meteorites
>
> > Hello everyone,
> > With the current thread about the so-called plundering of desert
> > meteorites underway, I was curious how much the Moroccan
> > nomads are typically offered for their hauls of common weathered
> > chondrites. What do these finders usually ask and what is a typical
> > per gram price they are offered by American and French dealers?
> > Thanks!
> > Bob
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> > http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

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<HTML>
 

Jim Strope wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>...This grading of material and offering higher prices
is what is disturbing
 some of the earlier buyers who bought rare material for pennies per
gram and
 tried to sell it to you for 100s of dollars per gram.  This is
what  is
 making them mad.  The prices of all Moroccan meteorites have gone
up
 considerably,  even the common stuff.</BLOCKQUOTE>
-This really doesn't answer the question. I would expect the price to up
along with demand and certainly if the  nomads knew the true value
of the material in today's collector market.
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> 

When Mike Farmer and I bought NWA 482 in January, the price per gram
was so
 high that we were chastised by some European dealers for paying so
much in
 the field.  We did not know it was Lunar at the time.  We
guessed it was a
 Howardite or possibly a Eucrite.  If it had turned out to be a
Eucrite we
 would have been lucky to just get our money back.  We took a chance. 
NWA
 482 had been offered to French and German dealers before us but they
 declined to pay the price.  I guess in retrospect they are kicking
 themselves for that decision.  Would you believe that even after
 classification and verification that it was Lunar that Mike was scolded
 again in Paris because we paid too much and were driving up the prices.?</BLOCKQUOTE>
 
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>-Simple math. The way I see it, NWA 482 before the
cutting loss and scientific donation had an estimated value of 4-4.5 million
dollars based on the opening offers to the public. A gamble yes, as it
could have been a Eucrite worth much less, but still quite valuable. To
be chastised for approximating the true worth of the material speaks volumes
for the one chastising.</BLOCKQUOTE>
 
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Hell, I will pay a fair price for rare material in
Morocco or any other
 country for rare material.</BLOCKQUOTE>
 -What is fair for a suspected OC, HED, an iron?
  -What are they asking

The recent thread has been intriguing from my standpoint, a collector
who buys a little extra from the dealers on this list and sells a little
on eBay to recoup on the price of the piece I want, far from profit other
than cheaper meteorites in the long run. The business of collecting.

The argument of the faction in support of indigenous people's land rights
is that those who obtain permits and hunt for themselves are stealing from
the mouths of the nomads. They argue that  they 
are  contributing to the livelihood of these nomads, and on this point
I agree. The nomads are getting paid. But what does happen when ultra valuable
material is brought back to the US, are the nomads further compensated
or does the money go to a consortium of investors bent on the next venture.
Again, I am asking, I do not know these answers. Human nature, however, 
is leaning me toward the belief that the nomads are getting the short end.
While they are making money, and more than their collective ancestors ever
did, I doubt they are getting even close to the value of the material they
are out walking in some the the harshest conditions on the planet to collect
and drag to some market. Now I am fully aware that such is the case in
any business. The laborers don't get paid the same as the man at the desk.
The migrant worker who picks berries makes more than his parents ever did
but he will never be able to go into business for himself. Agreed. But
the level of argument in this scenario has escalated to the point that
those who argue for the people are a bit misguided in my book. The nomads
are stymied by the fact that capitation among dealers only reaches a certain
level and the hunters, at least they are doing the work, just grab what
they want and pay the government instead of the people. For reasons I can
not understand, the nomads have no internal representation to the outside
world, certainly no world famous meteorite gurus, yet they have the richest
free market supply in the world. Maybe they are happy to get what they
they get, but they are sitting on a gold mine.

Eventually the Sahara supply will start to dry up, the history of this
science will pay attention to this time, and names will be remembered.
Nininger, Monnig, Dupont, believe me when I say this.

On many levels, Sahara meteorites are a double edged sword. Some mistakes
have already been made and will never be resolved. Others haven't happened
yet. The folks in the field (buyers and hunters and nomads) need to evaluate
which side of this sword they are on and how they want to be remembered,
not what the other guy is doing. History will worry about the other guy.
Collectors will pay what they decide to pay regardless of the collection
practices of the dealer and will certainly be remembered as a collective.

To the chastiser, had to make up a word,  mentioned way earlier
in this rant of mine, you really need to sit down and take a breath, and
hold it.

The rest of the groups in the field, be excellent. Worry about yourself
and the rest will take care of itself. No one likes a cheap meteorite more
than me, but what is the cost to the Sahara when we put a new piece on
our shelf?

My two cents, even though no one offered a penny for my thoughts. Feel
free to set me straight.
 Rob Wesel
  
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>

Jim Strope
 421 Fourth Street
 Glen Dale, WV  26038

THE FRESHEST AND ONLY ORIENTED LUNAR METEORITE IN THE WORLD:
 <A HREF="http://www.nwa482.com">http://www.nwa482.com</A>

----- Original Message -----
 From: "Bob King" <lakewind_at_infi.net>
 To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
 Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 8:38 PM
 Subject: [meteorite-list] Cost of Moroccan meteorites

> Hello everyone,
 > With the current thread about the so-called plundering of desert
 > meteorites underway, I was curious how much the Moroccan
 > nomads are typically offered for their hauls of common weathered
 > chondrites. What do these finders usually ask and what is a typical
 > per gram price they are offered by American and French dealers?
 > Thanks!
 > Bob
 >
 > _______________________________________________
 > Meteorite-list mailing list
 > Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
 > <A HREF="http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list">http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list</A>
 >

_______________________________________________
 Meteorite-list mailing list
 Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
 <A HREF="http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list">http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list</A></BLOCKQUOTE>
 </HTML>

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Received on Fri 29 Jun 2001 11:50:54 PM PDT

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