[meteorite-list] Tribal Group Sale of Fragments
From: Jamie Ekholm <jme_ekholm_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 09:54:03 2004 Message-ID: <001701c1b1e2$8b71c9a0$da0869ce_at_jekholm> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C1B1B0.40310780 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you for clarifying that. I would have seen it as a completely = different situation had the meteorite been taken from lands that were = owned by the tribe, even if they never used it in any way shape or form. Jamie EKholm ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alex Crutchfield=20 To: drtanuki ; Jamie Ekholm=20 Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tribal Group Sale of Fragments Interesting and thoughtful postings to the List. Check the history of = the Grande Ronde. They didnt worship the Willamette, nor did they use it = for ceremonies, nor did they assert a claim to it until after the MNH in = NY decided to make it a centerpiece of the new Rose wing. It was a = shakedown, plain and simple.=20 There is a political dimension as well--some legal scholars believe = that the Indian tribes have to assert ownership of every object on their lands or they risk losing the special federal = protections they enjoy, as a result of their legal "ab origine" (latin for from = the beginning) status. The federal legal status of the Grande Ronde as a = tribe was terminated (the legal term was "emancipated") in 1953, pursuant = to HB 108. The tribal status was terminated because there were no longer any recognisable Grande Ronde people, nor were there any recognisable = tribal practices extant.=20 In any event, when the Willamette was dragged from its resting place to the iron yard in the early 1900s, nobody said = anything about its religious nature. The Willamette was dug up, after having = rusted=20 and having been either undiscovered or ignored for thousands of years. = In the sevenites, a few activists living in Oregon thought that it = would be a good idea to legally reconstitute the Grand Ronde, and sought reestablishment of = federal tribal status, (along with money) and demanded a few hundred thousand acres of = private, state and federal land for good measure.=20 In 1983 the Grande Ronde were legally reestablished as a tribe, given the special federal status = that had lapsed and were given about 9000 acres. they sold much of their land = and timber rights and=20 opened a casino in 1995. I think there are about 100 members of the = Grande Ronde. The Grande Ronde are seeking to politicise this meteorite, and to turn = that into money, pure and simple. Like the macovich auction, except without any = dough=20 or time at risk.=20 Alex Crutchfield Meteorite Lists Lurker Nobody Fat Live White European Male ----- Original Message -----=20 From: drtanuki=20 To: Jamie Ekholm ; meteorite list=20 Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 7:48 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tribal Group Sale of Fragments Jamie,=20 Tribal Lands and "tribal lands" have very different legal, moral, = ethical, religious, bureaucratic, and etc. meanings. Your question = requires your own judgement. Dirk Ross....Tokyo=20 Jamie Ekholm wrote:=20 Does anyone know whether or not this particular meteorite was = first found on tribal lands? Jamie =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C1B1B0.40310780 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2712.300" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thank you for clarifying that. I = would have=20 seen it as a completely different situation had the meteorite been taken = from=20 lands that were owned by the tribe, even if they never used it in any = way shape=20 or form.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jamie EKholm</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Dalexc_at_oasispartners.com = href=3D"mailto:alexc_at_oasispartners.com">Alex=20 Crutchfield</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Ddrtanuki_at_tkc.att.ne.jp=20 href=3D"mailto:drtanuki_at_tkc.att.ne.jp">drtanuki</A> ; <A=20 title=3Djme_ekholm_at_ncis.net href=3D"mailto:jme_ekholm@ncis.net">Jamie = Ekholm</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 09, = 2002 9:34=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [meteorite-list] = Tribal=20 Group Sale of Fragments</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>Interesting=20 and thoughtful postings to the List. Check the history of the Grande = Ronde.=20 </FONT></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New = Roman" size=3D3>They=20 didnt worship the Willamette, nor did they use it for<BR>ceremonies, = nor did=20 they assert a claim to it until after the MNH in NY decided to make it = a=20 centerpiece of the new Rose wing. It was a shakedown, plain and = simple.=20 </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 size=3D3></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>There is a=20 political dimension as well--some legal sc</FONT></FONT><FONT = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>holars believe that = the Indian=20 tribes have to assert ownership of every<BR>object on their lands or = they risk=20 losing the special federal protections<BR>they enjoy, as a result of = their=20 legal "ab origine" (latin for from the<BR>beginning) status. The = federal legal=20 status of the Grande Ronde as a tribe<BR>was terminated (the legal = term was=20 "emancipated") in 1953, pursuant to HB<BR>108. The tribal status = was=20 terminated because there were no longer any<BR>recognisable Grande = Ronde=20 people, nor were there any recognisable tribal<BR>practices extant.=20 </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 size=3D3></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>In any event,=20 when the Willamette was dragged from its<BR>resting place to the iron = yard in=20 the early 1900s, nobody said anything<BR>about its religious nature. = The=20 Willamette was dug up, after having rusted </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>and having=20 been either undiscovered or ignored for thousands of years. = <BR><BR>In=20 the sevenites, a few activists living in Oregon thought that it would = be a=20 good idea to<BR>legally reconstitute the Grand Ronde, and sought=20 reestablishment of federal tribal status,<BR>(along with money) and = demanded a=20 few hundred thousand acres of private,<BR>state and federal land for = good=20 measure. </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20 size=3D3></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>In 1983 the=20 Grande Ronde were<BR>legally reestablished as a tribe, given the = special=20 federal status that had<BR>lapsed and were given about 9000 acres. = they sold=20 much of their land and timber rights and </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>opened a=20 casino in 1995. I think there are about 100 members of the Grande=20 Ronde.</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>The Grande=20 Ronde are seeking to politicise this meteorite, and to turn that=20 into<BR>money, pure and simple. Like the macovich auction, except = without any=20 dough </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" = size=3D3>or time at=20 risk. <BR>Alex Crutchfield<BR>Meteorite Lists Lurker<BR>Nobody<BR>Fat = Live=20 White European Male</FONT><BR></DIV></FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3Ddrtanuki_at_tkc.att.ne.jp=20 href=3D"mailto:drtanuki_at_tkc.att.ne.jp">drtanuki</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Djme_ekholm_at_ncis.net=20 href=3D"mailto:jme_ekholm_at_ncis.net">Jamie Ekholm</A> ; <A=20 title=3Dmeteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com=20 href=3D"mailto:meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com">meteorite = list</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 09, = 2002 7:48=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [meteorite-list] = Tribal=20 Group Sale of Fragments</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV>Jamie, <BR> Tribal Lands and "tribal = lands" have=20 very different legal, moral, ethical, religious, bureaucratic, and = etc.=20 meanings. Your question requires your own judgement. = Dirk=20 Ross....Tokyo=20 <P>Jamie Ekholm wrote:=20 <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE"> =20 <STYLE></STYLE> <FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D-1>Does anyone know whether or not = this=20 particular meteorite was first found on tribal=20 lands?</FONT></FONT> <FONT face=3DArial><FONT=20 size=3D-1>Jamie</FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> =20 </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C1B1B0.40310780-- Received on Sat 09 Feb 2002 10:25:09 PM PST |
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