[meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban
From: Mark Ferguson <mafer_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:16:31 2004 Message-ID: <010f01c35e34$36f2d4a0$6701a8c0_at_vs.shawcable.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_010C_01C35DF9.7802DFC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Steve and List Steve thats so true. But, by the same token, those who introduce or = lobby for bans on fossil or meteorite are sometimes those most ignorant = of the items themselves and are glory seekers. Just ask Mel Fisher's family what credentials the museum curator had who = took Fisher to court forcing Florida to back him in saying the treasures = Fisher found belonged to Florida. Or, how much of a world class = paleontologist is the museum curator who started the T. Rex Sue lawsuit. = They were both out for the kudos, since they couldn't and wouldn't = profit personally from their actions, or would they? Ask a world class expert in either field how much they depend on the = amateur collectors for new finds. Doesn't matter if that amateur is a = dealer or not. Only that they bring new material to the attention of the = scientists. Mark ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MeteorHntr_at_aol.com=20 To: almitt_at_kconline.com ; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com=20 Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Collecting Ban Hello List, What is so hard to understand about this? Let's not forget that the science of meteoritics is big business. = Well, not big by Microsoft or American Airlines standards, but compared = to collecting it sure is. I was given a number a couple years ago that = $12,000,000 a year is given out in grant money to study meteorites. It is hard to put a handle on how many dollars of meteorites are sold = in the collecting field to the END consumer. Let's not count the same = $5 specimen over and over again as it gets sold and traded to dealer = after dealer 6 times then to ebay a few times before getting to a = collector as if it were $50 in sales. Researching meteorites pays a lot = more each year than all the dealing or field hunting pays. The point is that if a Canadian Meteorite crosses the border and a = researcher in the US gets it, the US institution that researcher works = for gets the grant money and NOT the Canadian Institution (or researcher = who gets the pay check from said institution). =20 This of course goes for any other country that lets a meteorite get = out. However, I have not heard too many complaints from the Libyan = Meteoritical Society about them losing jobs because they can't get grant = money from NASA, because a DaG SNC slipped across of their borders. =20 Folks, it is always about the money. If an attorney is writing a paper on it, ask who is paying him to = write the paper? Or ask who is he wanting to see his "advertisement" so = someone might hire him in the future as "the foremost legal authority on = anti-collecting?" Either way, it comes back to money. I mean come on, = do we really believe that he is spending this time because he feels a = moral obligation to devote his life to correcting this major injustice = is our modern society? I think it is politically incorrect for a scientist to stand up and = speak up for the collecting community, so it is hard to know how many = support us, and how many really don't. But I have asked around, and I = have yet to find one single researcher who bashes dealers and field = collectors for "only being in meteorites for profit" who also endorses = their paychecks each week and donates them back to the institution they = work for.=20 Is this the kettle calling the pot black or what? As far as I know, Art Elhmann at T.C.U. is the only scientist that has = been actively contributing to the science who is working for free. I = mean, he is getting a pension, but I don't think he makes anything extra = for doing what he has done these last few years in helping our science. = And even if he did make more money, that is OK, the point is that he is = one scientist who supports us. Even Jeff Grossman, who most of us = really appreciate what all he does for us, is hesitant to even take a = side on this issue! Can we blame him? It seems most researchers might only be in meteorites for the money = too. Could it be that they want as big of the $12,000,000 pie as they = can get? If they can squeeze out some their competition, and get a = monopoly on the money game of meteoritics, then maybe their jobs will be = more secure? If only they could squeeze out the collectors and also = squeeze out researchers in other countries, then they can keep more = money for themselves. But if evil field collectors, smuggle their = future pay raises out to researchers in other countries, then that is = "bad for science." =20 Don't get dragged off on the rabbit trail of "what is best for = science." We all KNOW what is best for science. So do they. They are = just hoping their legislators (fellow government employees) won't look = deep enough to see the greed behind their requests and add the bill to = some Farm Subsidy Bill on page 634. And if their fellow government = employees DO see through their requests, maybe a "wink and a nod" will = get it passed anyway, especially if the attorney representing the = researchers was fraternity bother, in the same law school, as the = legislator pushing the Farm Subsidy Bill. Maybe the researchers will = agree to help the same legislator in his reelection campaign so he can = keep his job security as well. =20 I would have to say that there are some researchers who do care about = the science, and odds are pretty good that they are the ones who support = the commercial side of the field as well. But unless there is a way to = poll the researchers, or if they would want to go on public record (but = it might cost some of them their jobs if they buck the trend) we will = never know. Just remember the saying "follar the dollar" and things become quite = clear. Steve Arnold=20 ------=_NextPart_000_010C_01C35DF9.7802DFC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Steve and List</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Steve thats so true. But, by the same = token, those=20 who introduce or lobby for bans on fossil or meteorite are sometimes = those most=20 ignorant of the items themselves and are glory seekers.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Just ask Mel Fisher's family what = credentials the=20 museum curator had who took Fisher to court forcing Florida to back him = in=20 saying the treasures Fisher found belonged to Florida. Or, how much of a = world=20 class paleontologist is the museum curator who started the T. Rex Sue = lawsuit.=20 They were both out for the kudos, since they couldn't and wouldn't = profit=20 personally from their actions, or would they?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ask a world class expert in either = field how=20 much they depend on the amateur collectors for new finds. Doesn't matter = if that=20 amateur is a dealer or not. Only that they bring new material to the = attention=20 of the scientists.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mark</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A title=3DMeteorHntr_at_aol.com=20 href=3D"mailto:MeteorHntr_at_aol.com">MeteorHntr@aol.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dalmitt_at_kconline.com=20 href=3D"mailto:almitt_at_kconline.com">almitt@kconline.com</A> ; <A=20 title=3Dmeteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com=20 = href=3D"mailto:meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com">meteorite-list@meteor= itecentral.com</A>=20 </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 08, 2003 = 1:26=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [meteorite-list] = Meteorite=20 Collecting Ban</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT lang=3D0 = face=3DArial size=3D2=20 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF">Hello List,<BR><BR>What is so hard to understand = about=20 this?<BR><BR>Let's not forget that the science of meteoritics is big=20 business. Well, not big by Microsoft or American Airlines = standards, but=20 compared to collecting it sure is. I was given a number a couple = years=20 ago that $12,000,000 a year is given out in grant money to study=20 meteorites.<BR><BR>It is hard to put a handle on how many dollars of=20 meteorites are sold in the collecting field to the END consumer. = Let's=20 not count the same $5 specimen over and over again as it gets sold and = traded=20 to dealer after dealer 6 times then to ebay a few times before getting = to a=20 collector as if it were $50 in sales. Researching meteorites = pays a lot=20 more each year than all the dealing or field hunting pays.<BR><BR>The = point is=20 that if a Canadian Meteorite crosses the border and a researcher in = the US=20 gets it, the US institution that researcher works for gets the grant = money and=20 NOT the Canadian Institution (or researcher who gets the pay check = from said=20 institution). <BR><BR>This of course goes for any other country = that=20 lets a meteorite get out. However, I have not heard too many = complaints=20 from the Libyan Meteoritical Society about them losing jobs because = they can't=20 get grant money from NASA, because a DaG SNC slipped across of their=20 borders. <BR><BR>Folks, it is always about the money.<BR><BR>If = an=20 attorney is writing a paper on it, ask who is paying him to write the=20 paper? Or ask who is he wanting to see his "advertisement" so = someone=20 might hire him in the future as "the foremost legal authority on=20 anti-collecting?" Either way, it comes back to money. I = mean come=20 on, do we really believe that he is spending this time because he = feels a=20 moral obligation to devote his life to correcting this major injustice = is our=20 modern society?<BR><BR>I think it is politically incorrect for a = scientist to=20 stand up and speak up for the collecting community, so it is hard to = know how=20 many support us, and how many really don't. But I have asked = around, and=20 I have yet to find one single researcher who bashes dealers and field=20 collectors for "only being in meteorites for profit" who also endorses = their=20 paychecks each week and donates them back to the institution they work = for.=20 <BR><BR>Is this the kettle calling the pot black or what?<BR><BR>As = far as I=20 know, Art Elhmann at T.C.U. is the only scientist that has been = actively=20 contributing to the science who is working for free. I mean, he = is=20 getting a pension, but I don't think he makes anything extra for doing = what he=20 has done these last few years in helping our science. And even = if he did=20 make more money, that is OK, the point is that he is one scientist who = supports us. Even Jeff Grossman, who most of us really = appreciate what=20 all he does for us, is hesitant to even take a side on this = issue! Can=20 we blame him?<BR><BR>It seems most researchers might only be in = meteorites for=20 the money too. Could it be that they want as big of the = $12,000,000 pie=20 as they can get? If they can squeeze out some their competition, = and get=20 a monopoly on the money game of meteoritics, then maybe their jobs = will be=20 more secure? If only they could squeeze out the collectors and = also=20 squeeze out researchers in other countries, then they can keep more = money for=20 themselves. But if evil field collectors, smuggle their future = pay=20 raises out to researchers in other countries, then that is "bad for=20 science." <BR><BR>Don't get dragged off on the rabbit trail of = "what is=20 best for science." We all KNOW what is best for science. = So do=20 they. They are just hoping their legislators (fellow government=20 employees) won't look deep enough to see the greed behind their = requests and=20 add the bill to some Farm Subsidy Bill on page 634. And if their = fellow=20 government employees DO see through their requests, maybe a "wink and = a nod"=20 will get it passed anyway, especially if the attorney representing the = researchers was fraternity bother, in the same law school, as the = legislator=20 pushing the Farm Subsidy Bill. Maybe the researchers will agree = to help=20 the same legislator in his reelection campaign so he can keep his job = security=20 as well. <BR><BR>I would have to say that there are some = researchers who=20 do care about the science, and odds are pretty good that they are the = ones who=20 support the commercial side of the field as well. But unless = there is a=20 way to poll the researchers, or if they would want to go on public = record (but=20 it might cost some of them their jobs if they buck the trend) we will = never=20 know.<BR><BR>Just remember the saying "follar the dollar" and things = become=20 quite clear.<BR><BR>Steve Arnold</FONT> = </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_010C_01C35DF9.7802DFC0-- Received on Sat 09 Aug 2003 01:07:33 AM PDT |
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