[meteorite-list] Re: Barringer Meteor $$$$

From: Tom aka James Knudson <knudson911_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:25:37 2004
Message-ID: <00a301c315d9$4fbbcc60$cfc543d8_at_malcolm>

Bob,That was a good read! They are, and always have been in it for the
money! They do not care about the meteorites, if they did the meteorites
would not be rusting away under their parking lot! I would be fine with them
if they would just open it back up for hunting so we can get some before
they all rust to nothing. Even if they sold us the right to hunt would be
ok. Oh well, what do they care, they are making plenty of money!
Thanks, Tom
The proudest member of the IMCA 6168
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Martino <martino.6_at_osu.edu>
To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 7:45 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Barringer Meteor $$$$


> All,
>
> With apologies to the eloquent Mr. Schoner, I must present a dissenting
(or
> at least balancing) opinion.
>
> With regard to the Mining Act under which the Barringer family obtained
the
> crater, it was in fact legal and in fact proper. The mining act only says
> that you must _try_ to extract minerals from the land for a specific time
> period. After that, the land becomes yours. Daniel Barringer did, by God,
> try his damndest to extract minerals. He actually sunk most of his fortune
> into it, eventually going broke. But it was mined for the proper amount of
> time under the law and so became his. You might make the case that the law
> is bad and allows public property to pass into private hands without just
> compensation to the government (and I might agree with you). Even so, it
is
> the law of the land and the letter as well as spirit of that law was met
by
> Mr. Barringer. As a point of fact, almost anyone living out west does so
on
> land that used to be owned by the government but was essentially _given_
> away to the first settlers and homesteaders.
>
> I think that (at this time at least) making the crater a National Park or
> National Monument would be a mistake.
>
> I've visited the crater twice now and each time I've been impressed with
the
> great job the company is doing running the whole operation. On my first
> visit I expected a typical tourist trap. Stupid plastic "Indian tomahawks"
> and other inane items in the gift shop, for example. While there is a
little
> of this, most of what they sell is good, interesting, and even
educational.
> If you tell them you're a teacher they even will mail to you a package of
> information, books, and pictures. What tourist trap does that? Also, the
> tours were not lame and cheezy affairs given by a bored guide with a poor
> attitude and worse diction. Both times my guide for the rim walk was quite
> knowledgeable and interesting. At the end of my first tour I told the
guide
> I worked at an observatory. He took out of his pocket the magnet that he'd
> drug through an ant hill during the tour. He picked off a few dozen
> authentic ant-mined meteorite specimens and gave them to me in a plastic
> wrapper from a cigarette pack. That was so cool. They also have a short
> movie about the crater which plays every 20 minutes or so and it's very
well
> done also. High production values do not come cheap. On my second visit I
> found that they'd re-done the entire exhibit hall with cool interactive
> displays and hands-on activities. This sort of very professional exhibit
> development also does not come cheap either. Trust me. I've done a lot of
> exhibit creation on a tiny budget and I know how that looks.
>
> For more than a decade the budget for the National Park Service has been
cut
> every year while the number of parks and monuments has grown. Add in
> inflation and you quickly see why the NPS has a backlog of almost a
quarter
> of a billion dollars in desperately needed repairs and infrastructure
> improvements that simply cannot be paid for. If the NPS took over Meteor
> Crater then in a few years the beautiful building would begin to fall
apart
> and even more poaching would occur due to lack of staffing.
>
> Indeed, the Barringer family _tried_ to return the land to the government!
> When the Federal Government said, "No thanks" they tried to give it to the
> State of Arizona. Arizona also declined. Everyone saw it as a worthless
> white-elephant-like piece of God-forsaken desert. Now that Meteor Crater
> Enterprises has made it into something worth having, we want to take it
away
> from them?
>
> So you say the admission fee is too high? Why? To me it seems in line with
> other tourist attractions around the country. So what if you can enter
Grand
> Canyon for $20 a car load? You don't actually believe that the park can
> cover _all_ of its costs at that admission price, do you? Meteor Crater
> doesn't receive any public money like the parks do. It's for-profit. Grand
> Canyon is non-profit. There are different economics at play here. Meteor
> Crater cannot run on deficit spending. And it isn't wrong for them to want
> to make a profit. Let me say that again. It is not wrong for a private
> for-profit company to make a profit from the use of its assets. That's
> Capitalism at work, isn't it?
>
> OK, so MCE doesn't like the late Dr. Nininger. Actually, they have good
> reason. He did indeed take meteorites off their private property and sell
> them. That's stealing. Whatever else the Dr. did, whatever good he did,
> whatever research he accomplished, he did steal meteorites from the
> Barringer family. Answer me this everyone: If you owned a large piece of
> land that had meteorites on it, what would you do about people sneaking in
> and taking them? Don't call it "poaching" (in quotation marks as if to say
> "It's not really poaching"). Call it stealing. That's what it is. I know
> that if God dropped a bunch of meteorite fragments on land that I owned,
I'd
> guard them carefully and God help whoever tried to take them! Now imagine
> that you opened a tourist attraction on your meteorite-covered property
> (let's say an impact left a crater). Someone then comes by and places a
> competing attraction RIGHT NEXT DOOR where people could look onto your
land
> and see your crater and then go into the gift shop and buy meteorites
stolen
> from you. How would you feel? What would you do?
>
> Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to bash Dr. Nininger. He was a great
man
> who accomplished a lot of good science throughout a hard life filled with
> adversity. I'm just saying that the attitudes of the managers of the
crater
> have good reasons behind them.
>
> Given the above, the attitude of Meteor Crater Enterprises toward hard
> research into the strewn field seems easier to understand. The American
> Meteorite Survey sells meteorites too. Having a meteorite dealer search
> around the crater collecting what he finds... I'm not sure that I'd allow
it
> if I were in charge. The fact that Steve was a friend of Dr. Nininger just
> makes it worse.
>
> By the way, Steve, I have to call you on an inconsistency. You criticized
> MCE for allowing poachers to steal meteorites and sell them at rock shops
> along the highway while destroying strewn-field data. But you also
> criticized them for their attempts to stop the poaching. I'm afraid you
> can't have it both ways.
>
> And there is another entirely different reason why the MCE people might
not
> like Steve's research. Lawsuits. What if Steve or one of his assistants
got
> hurt? Meteor Crater was sued some time ago because a _stupid_ woman
wearing
> sandals tried to hike around the crater rim even though she was warned not
> to. Of course she got hurt. Of course, it was the fault of MCE for not
> physically stopping her from doing something stupid. MCE's insurance
company
> was going to refuse them any more coverage unless they prevented
_everyone_
> from going outside while at the rim. Without insurance coverage MCE
wouldn't
> be able to legally operate at all. MCE was finally able to persuade their
> carrier to allow them to give tours on the rim as long as the hike wasn't
> more than 1/4 mile long and two guides were present at all times. MCE
might
> simply be unable to comply with Steve's request because of liability
> reasons. It's sad, but such are the times we live in.
>
> It's a shame that Steve can't do his research. I feel for him. Also, I
agree
> that the crater itself should be public owned again, IF there was
assurance
> that it would be properly funded and well-managed. Unfortunately, that is
> unlikely given the recent history of the NPS and Congressional funding.
> Since we don't live in a perfect world, I have to say that in my opinion
the
> crater is in pretty good hands. Poaching may still be a problem, but it
> would be worse under NPS jurisdiction. The admission charge might be a
> little steep, but it's not out of line for a once-in-a-lifetime visit.
>
> -----
> Bob Martino, Tucson, AZ
>
> Can you really name a star? Read the Truth!
> http://home.columbus.rr.com/starfaq/
> ..
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
Received on Thu 08 May 2003 11:15:56 PM PDT