[meteorite-list] weight descrepency
From: Pekka Savolainen <pekka.savolainen_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:25:44 2004 Message-ID: <3ED0F7EF.9010502_at_dlc.fi> --------------090000050702090908010603 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, Tom and the list, think the basics of the law are same here than in US. Just some days ago overed the speed-limit, and this is not an excuse, I didnīt know the correct speed to drive. So think this is clear to all of us. But in this case itīs a question about 2 different traditions, minerals and meteorites. Meteorites are mainly sold by weight, minerals mainly by the size and what they do look like. To sell a meteorite-wrong as a meteorite is a crime, no doubt. Carlos have sold genuine stuff with wrong arguments, and because of that the buyer hasnīt recived the item he or she has thought was buying. Anyway, I still strongly belive, there is a question about 2 different cultures / traditions to sell the items. And the not so good english of Carlos doesnīt make the situation any cleaerer, thatīs why I have asked some spanish-speaking to tell him the right way in spanish. I have sent an e-mail to Carlos in my not so good english and even worse spanish, and I really hope, we can now make these things clear. Anyway, itīs very hard to belive, the well-known mineral-dealer will ruin his business for some dollars, and as I told before, meteorites on eBay are just 1-2% for his sales. He has 97,6 % positive feedback, and anyway, he is mainly dealing on fairs and shows. This far as I know, the buyers, which have contacted Carlos, are all promised to get the missing part of their stuff, letīs hope, these are weighted without the packing-material...;- take care, pekka Tom aka James Knudson wrote: >Hello Pekka, Here in the US, we have to live by a law that basically says; >"ignorance of a law is no excuse for breaking the law." He may not have >known that he was stealing, but he was . If it were nothing more than human >error, it could be forgiven, but when he refuses to correct it, he is wrong >and should not be trusted. I think by now he knows what he is doing is >wrong, has he corrected it? If someone sells meteor-wrongs on ebay and >refuses to take the appropriate actions do you stand up for them? If a >buyer buys a meteor-wrong or buys a 100g meteorite that weighs 50g's, he did >not get what he paid for! >Thanks, Tom >The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 >----- Original Message ----- >From: Pekka Savolainen <pekka.savolainen_at_dlc.fi> >To: Michael Farmer <farmerm_at_concentric.net> >Cc: Peter Marmet <p.marmet_at_dplanet.ch>; list ><meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com> >Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 2:52 AM >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] weight descrepency > > >>Hello, Michael and the list, >> >>well, to be honest, the negative feedbacks are correct in these cases. >>But as I have told before, Carlos have been mainly in mineral-business, >>over 30 years. Ok, itīs his problem, if he doesnīt know, how to sell >>meteorites, but anyway, Iīll find it at least fair to tell him, how to do >>that. If you take a look at his other auctions, meteorites are some 1 - 2% >>he is selling. >> >>I have been also dealing and collecting minerals over 20 years, and the >>rules are different than in meteorites. The weight of the specimen is not >>important. As far as I remember, I havenīt sold any crystal-specimen by >>weight. The important things in this sector are size and the visuality of >>the specimen. >> >>Iīm not going to say, Carlos is doing right, he is wrong in this case, no >>doubt. But if this is because of the lack of the knowledge in meteorites, >>which are 1 - 2% of his deals, it looks fair to me, if some one speaking >>better spanish than me, would make the rules with meteorites clear to him. >>His small amounts of unclassified NWA:s donīt explose the market or make >>the living of professional meteorite-dealers any harder, he is, and will >>be a >>mineral-dealer. I suppose, he has just bought some NWA:s from Morocco >>with mineral specimens and is now selling them away. >> >>This is just my opinion worth of 2 cents again, but if we are very >>aggressive, >>it doesnīt bring any new collector to this hobby. Itīs allways possible, >>if Carlos >>learns to sell his NWA:s in a correct way, some one new in this field >>will have >>a spark from his not so excpensive ones, and will be later deeper in the >>community. >> >>Itīs sure, there are allways people trying to cheat, but think this is >>not a question in >>this case. I have met hundreds of people, they are sure, their specimen >>is a real met, >>and I have to inform them nicely and gently, it is not, give them some >>information of the mets, >>some papers, perhaps a free sample of some NWA. And also give my time >>for free, and show, >>their interrest in meteorites is an impotrant thing. In this way theyīll >>come back to >>me also the next time, and perhaps one day with a real sample. If I tell >>them, thee, hee, just >>drop your hematite in the nearest trash-can, Iīm not interrested in you >>or in your specimen, >>it would be the last one, theyīll bring to me, and they feel, they have >>been fools, when belive >>the whole thing. I think, the role of collectors / dealers in meteorites >>could be a bit more >>educational. >> >>This thing with Carlos is not exactly the same, he is doing business in >>a wrong way and >>with wrong arguments, but I stronly belive, he doesnīt know that. He is >>a spanish-speaking >>old rock-hound, not a specialist in meteorites. So thatīs why it would >>be highly apreciated, >>if you, Mike, or some other on the list speaking better spanish than me, >>would explain to Carlos, >>which is the different between a mineral-sample and a meteorite-sample >>and what is the correct >>way to sell meteorites. If this doesnīt work, itīs time to inform eBay, >>and thatīs it. Think this should >>be a fair way to handle the case. >> >>take care, >> >>pekka >> >> >> >>Michael Farmer wrote: >> >>>Guys, the only way to take care of this is the give the guy negative >>>feedbacks, if you dont do that, then you have no right to complain. That >>>will save other people from making the same mistake. >>>Mike Farmer >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Peter Marmet" <p.marmet_at_dplanet.ch> >>>To: "list" <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com> >>>Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 1:18 AM >>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] weight descrepency >>> >>> >>>>Hi list, >>>> >>>>I have 2 meteorites that I bought on ebay from him: >>>> >>>>- 100g but it is only 55g! >>>>- 68 g but it is only 35 g! >>>> >>>>That's fraud, isn't it! Seller should be removed from ebay! >>>> >>>>Peter M. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>______________________________________________ >>>>Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com >>>>http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>> >>> >>>______________________________________________ >>>Meteorite-list mailing list >>>Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com >>>http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>-- >> >> >> >> >>Pekka Savolainen >>Jokiharjuntie 4 >>FIN-71330 Rasala >>FINLAND >> >>+ 358 400 818 912 >> >>Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin >>Group Email Address: eurocoin_at_smartgroups.com >> >> >> >> >>______________________________________________ >>Meteorite-list mailing list >>Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com >>http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > >______________________________________________ >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: eurocoin_at_smartgroups.com --------------090000050702090908010603 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <html> <head> </head> <body> <br> Hello, Tom and the list,<br> <br> think the basics of the law are same here than in US. Just some days ago<br> overed the speed-limit, and this is not an excuse, I didn´t know the correct<br> speed to drive. So think this is clear to all of us.<br> <br> But in this case it´s a question about 2 different traditions, minerals and meteorites.<br> Meteorites are mainly sold by weight, minerals mainly by the size and what they <br> do look like.<br> <br> To sell a meteorite-wrong as a meteorite is a crime, no doubt. Carlos have sold <br> genuine stuff with wrong arguments, and because of that the buyer hasn´t recived<br> the item he or she has thought was buying. Anyway, I still strongly belive, there is<br> a question about 2 different cultures / traditions to sell the items. And the not so good<br> english of Carlos doesn´t make the situation any cleaerer, that´s why I have asked some<br> spanish-speaking to tell him the right way in spanish.<br> <br> I have sent an e-mail to Carlos in my not so good english and even worse spanish, and<br> I really hope, we can now make these things clear.<br> <br> Anyway, it´s very hard to belive, the well-known mineral-dealer will ruin his business for<br> some dollars, and as I told before, meteorites on eBay are just 1-2% for his sales. He has<br> 97,6 % positive feedback, and anyway, he is mainly dealing on fairs and shows.<br> <br> This far as I know, the buyers, which have contacted Carlos, are all promised to get the<br> missing part of their stuff, let´s hope, these are weighted without the packing-material...;-<br> <br> take care,<br> <br> pekka<br> <br> Tom aka James Knudson wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:001801c322d7$54a1aaa0$90c943d8_at_malcolm"> <pre wrap="">Hello Pekka, Here in the US, we have to live by a law that basically says;<br>"ignorance of a law is no excuse for breaking the law." He may not have<br>known that he was stealing, but he was . If it were nothing more than human<br>error, it could be forgiven, but when he refuses to correct it, he is wrong<br>and should not be trusted. I think by now he knows what he is doing is<br>wrong, has he corrected it? If someone sells meteor-wrongs on ebay and<br>refuses to take the appropriate actions do you stand up for them? If a<br>buyer buys a meteor-wrong or buys a 100g meteorite that weighs 50g's, he did<br>not get what he paid for!<br>Thanks, Tom<br>The proudest member of the IMCA 6168<br>----- Original Message -----<br>From: Pekka Savolainen <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pekka.savolainen_at_dlc.fi"><pekka.savolainen@dlc.fi></a><br>To: Michael Farmer <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:farmerm@concentric.net"><farmerm@concentr ic.net></a><br>Cc: Peter Marmet <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:p.marmet_at_dplanet.ch"><p.marmet@dplanet.ch></a>; list<br><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com"><meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com></a><br>Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 2:52 AM<br>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] weight descrepency<br><br><br></pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Hello, Michael and the list,<br><br>well, to be honest, the negative feedbacks are correct in these cases.<br>But as I have told before, Carlos have been mainly in mineral-business,<br>over 30 years. Ok, it´s his problem, if he doesn´t know, how to sell<br>meteorites, but anyway, I´ll find it at least fair to tell him, how to do<br>that. If you take a look at his other auctions, meteorites are some 1 - 2%<br>he is selling.<br><br>I have been also dealing and collecting minerals over 20 years, and the<br>rules are different than in meteorites. The weight of the specimen is not<br>important. As far as I remember, I haven´t sold any crystal-specimen by<br>weight. The important things in this sector are size and the visuality of<br>the specimen.<br><br>I´m not going to say, Carlos is doing right, he is wrong in this case, no<br>doubt. But if this is because of the lack of the knowledge in meteorites,<br>which are 1 - 2% of his deals , it looks fair to me, if some one speaking<br>better spanish than me, would make the rules with meteorites clear to him.<br>His small amounts of unclassified NWA:s don´t explose the market or make<br>the living of professional meteorite-dealers any harder, he is, and will<br>be a<br>mineral-dealer. I suppose, he has just bought some NWA:s from Morocco<br>with mineral specimens and is now selling them away.<br><br>This is just my opinion worth of 2 cents again, but if we are very<br>aggressive,<br>it doesn´t bring any new collector to this hobby. It´s allways possible,<br>if Carlos<br>learns to sell his NWA:s in a correct way, some one new in this field<br>will have<br>a spark from his not so excpensive ones, and will be later deeper in the<br>community.<br><br>It´s sure, there are allways people trying to cheat, but think this is<br>not a question in<br>this case. I have met hundreds of people, they are sure, their specimen<br>is a real met,<br>and I have to inform them nicely and gently, it is not, give them some<br>information of the mets,<br>some papers, perhaps a free sample of some NWA. And also give my time<br>for free, and show,<br>their interrest in meteorites is an impotrant thing. In this way they´ll<br>come back to<br>me also the next time, and perhaps one day with a real sample. If I tell<br>them, thee, hee, just<br>drop your hematite in the nearest trash-can, I´m not interrested in you<br>or in your specimen,<br>it would be the last one, they´ll bring to me, and they feel, they have<br>been fools, when belive<br>the whole thing. I think, the role of collectors / dealers in meteorites<br>could be a bit more<br>educational.<br><br>This thing with Carlos is not exactly the same, he is doing business in<br>a wrong way and<br>with wrong arguments, but I stronly belive, he doesn´t know that. He is<br>a spanish-speaking<br>old rock-hound, not a specialist in meteorites. So that´s why i t would<br>be highly apreciated,<br>if you, Mike, or some other on the list speaking better spanish than me,<br>would explain to Carlos,<br>which is the different between a mineral-sample and a meteorite-sample<br>and what is the correct<br>way to sell meteorites. If this doesn´t work, it´s time to inform eBay,<br>and that´s it. Think this should<br>be a fair way to handle the case.<br><br>take care,<br><br>pekka<br><br><br><br>Michael Farmer wrote:<br><br></pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Guys, the only way to take care of this is the give the guy negative<br>feedbacks, if you dont do that, then you have no right to complain. That<br>will save other people from making the same mistake.<br>Mike Farmer<br>----- Original Message -----<br>From: "Peter Marmet" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:p.marmet_at_dplanet.ch"><p.marmet@dplanet.ch></a><br>To: "list" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com"><meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com></a><br>Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 1:18 AM<br>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] weight descrepency<br><br><br></pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Hi list,<br><br>I have 2 meteorites that I bought on ebay from him:Received on Sun 25 May 2003 01:05:51 PM PDT |
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