[meteorite-list] About the swedish fossile-meteorites (from the news-group archives 1997)
From: Pekka Savolainen <pekka.savolainen_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:28:19 2004 Message-ID: <3F7C353C.5060403_at_dlc.fi> --------------040400000000030804010507 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some older (1997) from the news-groups. pekka s From: Keith Littleton <http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=author:littlejo%40vnet.net+> (littlejo_at_vnet.net <mailto:littlejo%40vnet.net> ) Subject: Re: News; 17 fossil meteorites in Sweden Newsgroups: talk.origins <http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=talk.origins> Date: 1997/10/11 In Message-Id: <6132el$rhd$1_at_orthanc.reference.com> david.hultgren_at_ffvaerotech.ffv.se wrote: >Just heard on the news that a researchteam from the >university of Gvteborg found 17 meteorites buried >480 million years ago at kinekulle in Sweden. >It was mentioned at the newsprogram "Dagens Eko" >by Birger Schmitz from the researchteam. Apparently people have been finding all sorts of meteorites in Ordovician limestones of Sweden. For example, in the October 3, 1997 issue of of "Science," there is: Schmitz, B. Peucker-Ehrenbrink, Lindstrom, M., and Tassinari, M. (1997) Accretion Rates of Meteorites andCosmic Dust in the Early Ordovician. Science volume 278, number 5335, pp. 88-90. The abstract begins, "Abundant fossil meteorites in marine, condensed Lower Ordovician limestones..." Other instances of fossil meteorites are discussed in Hansen and Berstrom (1997). They note that the first of the specimens was a 4-inch in diameter meteorite discovered middle Ordovician Limestone in 1951. It was not described until 1981 by Thorslund and Wickman (1981). In 1988, another swedish meteorite, called "Osterplana 1," was discovered in Lower Ordovician Limestone about 5 million years older and 300 miles away from the first (Hansen and Berstrom 1997, pp. 1). Twelve more meteorites have been found at the Thorsberg Limestone Quarry. Hansen and Berstrom (1997, pp. 3) state: "A 10-foot-thick section of the Holen ("Orthoceratite") Limestone, of Early Middle Ordovician age, is extracted at the Thorsberg quarry and sawed into thin slabs that are used for windowsills and floor tile. Quarry workers discarded slabs with impurities, such as the meteorites, until Professor Maurits Lindstrom of the University of Stockholm alerted them to save such slabs. The 12 specimens were recovered between 1992 and 1996. Ten of the specimens were recovered from a 2-foot-thick bed of limestone and may represent a single meteorite fall. The other three specimens were recovered from two separate levels above this layer. Seven of the specimens, collected between 1993 ant 1996, are from a quarried limestone volume of no more than about 127,000 cubic feet. Most of the specimens are now on display at the Stiftelsen Paleo Geology Center in Lidkoping, Sweden. The Thorsberg quarry meteorites range in size from about 0.5 to 3.5 inches in diameter and have been almost completely replaced (pseudomorphosed) by calcite and barite. The dark, reddish brown meteorite masses look like iron nodules surrounded by a zone of lighter colored limestone and would be mistaken by many people for common sedimentary features. However, they contain grains of chromite and have a high iridium content, among other confirming characteristics of extraterrestrial origin." Reference Cited Hasen, M. C., and Bergstrom, S. M.. 1997, Ancient meteorites. Ohio Geology, Spring 1997. Further Readings from Hansen and Berstrom (1997) about the Swedish meteorites. Nystrom, J. O., and Wickman, F. E. (1991) The Ordovician chondrite from Brunflo, central Sweden; II, Secondary minerals. Lithos. volume 27, number 3, pp. 167-185. Nystrom, J. O., Lindstrom, M., and Wickman, F. E., (1988) Discovery of a second Ordovician meteorite using chromite as a tracer. Nature. volume 336, pp. 572-574. Schmitz, B., Lindstrom, M., Asaro, F., and Tassinari, M., (1996) Geochemistry of meteorite-rich marine limestone strata and fossil meteorites from the Lower Ordovician at Kinnekulle, Sweden. Earth and Planetary Science Letters. volume 145, pp. 31-48. Thorslund, Per, and Wickman, F. E. (1981) Middle Ordovician chondrite in fossiliferous limestone from Brunflo, central Sweden. Nature. volume 289, pp. 285-286. Thorslund, Per., Wickman, F. E., and Nystrom, J. O. (1984) The Ordovician chondrite from Brunflo, central Sweden, I. General description and primary minerals. Lithos. volume 17, pp. 87-100. ++ Many Other Meteorites ++ For many more cases of meteorites, see, http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/dave_matson/ And go to "Library: Modern Documents: Dave Matson: Young Earth: Specific Arguments: Meteor" at: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/dave_matson/young-earth /specific_arguments/meteor.html Dave Matson at the above URL wrote: "After reviewing such difficulties, geologist Davis Young (1988, p.127) tells us that, 'The chances of finding a fossil meteorite in sedimentary rocks are remote. It is not to be expected.' G. J. McCall, in Meteorites and Their Origins (1973, p.270), said, 'The lack of fossil record of true meteorites is puzzling, but can be explained by the lack of very diagnostic shapes and the chemical nature of meteorites, which allows rapid decay...' It may surprise you, therefore, to hear that we do have such a find! Two Swedish scientists made the first positive identification of a fossilized stoney meteorite (Astronomy, June 1981). Per Thorslund and Frans Wickman reported in Nature that a 10 centimeter object found in a limestone slab from a quarry in Brunflo, central Sweden in 1952 is really a stoney meteorite as demonstrated by microscopic examinations and other properties. It has a terrestrial age of about 463 million years. The object had until recently been mistaken for something else. If the odds were not bent enough, it appears that the meteorite hit an Ordovician mollusk which is fossilized in conjunction with the meteorite! (Spratt and Stephens, 1992, p.53) In 1930 a fist-sized piece of nickel-iron was said to have been recovered from a bore hole at a depth of 1,525 feet, from the Eocene. This 'Zapata County' Texas iron has since been lost (Nature, January 22, 1981). Fritz Heide mentioned that 'The iron of Sardis, Burke County, Georgia, was found in 1940, in strata believed to be of Middle Miocene age.' (Heide,1964, pp.118-119.) We may conclude, therefore, that it is not true that fossil meteorites don't exist in the geologic record. However, recovering and identifying them is extremely rare." Walt Brown, who claims that fossil meteorites never are found, apparently doesn't know what he is talking about. :-) Sincerely, Keith Littleton littlejo_at_vnet.net New Orleans, LA -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: eurocoin_at_smartgroups.com --------------040400000000030804010507 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <html> <head> </head> <body> <font face="arial,sans-serif"><br> Some older (1997) from the news-groups.<br> <br> pekka s<br> <br> <br> From: <a href="http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=author:littlejo%40vnet.net+"> Keith Littleton</a> (<a href="mailto:littlejo%40vnet.net">littlejo_at_vnet.net</a> )<br> Subject: Re: News; 17 fossil meteorites in Sweden <br> <font face="arial,sans-serif"> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" align="Right"> <tbody> <tr> <td><br> </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="Right"><br> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </font> Newsgroups: <a href="http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=talk.origins"> talk.origins</a> <br> Date: 1997/10/11 <br> </font> <pre>In Message-Id: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:6132el$rhd$1_at_orthanc.reference.com"><6132el$rhd$1@orthanc.reference.com></a> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:david.hultgren_at_ffvaerotech.ffv.se">david.hultgren@ffvaerotech.ffv.se</a> wrote: <font color="#660066">>Just heard on the news that a researchteam from the >university of Gvteborg found 17 meteorites buried >480 million years ago at kinekulle in Sweden. >It was mentioned at the newsprogram "Dagens Eko" >by Birger Schmitz from the researchteam.</font> Apparently people have been finding all sorts of meteorites in Ordovician limestones of Sweden. For example, in the October 3, 1997 issue of of "Science," there is: Schmitz, B. Peucker-Ehrenbrink, Lindstrom, M., and Tassinari, M. (1997) Accretion Rates of Meteorites andCosmic Dust in the Early Ordovician. Science volume 278, number 5335, pp. 88-90. The abstract begins, "Abundant fossil meteorites in marine, conde nsed Lower Ordovician limestones..." Other instances of fossil meteorites are discussed in Hansen and Berstrom (1997). They note that the first of the specimens was a 4-inch in diameter meteorite discovered middle Ordovician Limestone in 1951. It was not described until 1981 by Thorslund and Wickman (1981). In 1988, another swedish meteorite, called "Osterplana 1," was discovered in Lower Ordovician Limestone about 5 million years older and 300 miles away from the first (Hansen and Berstrom 1997, pp. 1). Twelve more meteorites have been found at the Thorsberg Limestone Quarry. Hansen and Berstrom (1997, pp. 3) state: "A 10-foot-thick section of the Holen ("Orthoceratite") Limestone, of Early Middle Ordovician age, is extracted at the Thorsberg quarry and sawed into thin slabs that are used for windowsills and floor tile. Quarry workers discarded slabs with impurities, such as the meteorites, until Professor Maurits Lindstrom of the University of S tockholm alerted them to save such slabs. The 12 specimens were recovered between 1992 and 1996. Ten of the specimens were recovered from a 2-foot-thick bed of limestone and may represent a single meteorite fall. The other three specimens were recovered from two separate levels above this layer. Seven of the specimens, collected between 1993 ant 1996, are from a quarried limestone volume of no more than about 127,000 cubic feet. Most of the specimens are now on display at the Stiftelsen Paleo Geology Center in Lidkoping, Sweden. The Thorsberg quarry meteorites range in size from about 0.5 to 3.5 inches in diameter and have been almost completely replaced (pseudomorphosed) by calcite and barite. The dark, reddish brown meteorite masses look like iron nodules surrounded by a zone of lighter colored limestone and would be mistaken by many people for common sedimentary features. However, they contain grains of ch romite and have a high iridium content, among other confirming characteristics of extraterrestrial origin." Reference Cited Hasen, M. C., and Bergstrom, S. M.. 1997, Ancient meteorites. Ohio Geology, Spring 1997. Further Readings from Hansen and Berstrom (1997) about the Swedish meteorites. Nystrom, J. O., and Wickman, F. E. (1991) The Ordovician chondrite from Brunflo, central Sweden; II, Secondary minerals. Lithos. volume 27, number 3, pp. 167-185. Nystrom, J. O., Lindstrom, M., and Wickman, F. E., (1988) Discovery of a second Ordovician meteorite using chromite as a tracer. Nature. volume 336, pp. 572-574. Schmitz, B., Lindstrom, M., Asaro, F., and Tassinari, M., (1996) Geochemistry of meteorite-rich marine limestone strata and fossil meteorites from the Lower Ordovician at Kinnekulle, Sweden. Earth and Planetary Science Letters. volume 145, pp. 31-48. Thorslund, Per, and Wickman, F. E. (1981) Midd le Ordovician chondrite in fossiliferous limestone from Brunflo, central Sweden. Nature. volume 289, pp. 285-286. Thorslund, Per., Wickman, F. E., and Nystrom, J. O. (1984) The Ordovician chondrite from Brunflo, central Sweden, I. General description and primary minerals. Lithos. volume 17, pp. 87-100. ++ Many Other Meteorites ++ For many more cases of meteorites, see, <a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/dave_matson/">http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/dave_matson/</a> And go to "Library: Modern Documents: Dave Matson: Young Earth: Specific Arguments: Meteor" at: <a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/dave_matson/young-earth">http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/dave_matson/young-earth</a> /specific_arguments/meteor.html Dave Matson at the above URL wrote: "After reviewing such difficulties, geologist Davis Young (1988, p.127) tells us that, 'The chances of finding a fossil meteorite in sed imentary rocks are remote. It is not to be expected.' G. J. McCall, in Meteorites and Their Origins (1973, p.270), said, 'The lack of fossil record of true meteorites is puzzling, but can be explained by the lack of very diagnostic shapes and the chemical nature of meteorites, which allows rapid decay...' It may surprise you, therefore, to hear that we do have such a find! Two Swedish scientists made the first positive identification of a fossilized stoney meteorite (Astronomy, June 1981). Per Thorslund and Frans Wickman reported in Nature that a 10 centimeter object found in a limestone slab from a quarry in Brunflo, central Sweden in 1952 is really a stoney meteorite as demonstrated by microscopic examinations and other properties. It has a terrestrial age of about 463 million years. The object had until recently been mistaken for something else. If the odds were not bent enough, it appears that the meteorite hit an Ordovician mollusk which is fossilized in conjunction with the meteorite! (Spratt and Stephens, 1992, p.53) In 1930 a fist-sized piece of nickel-iron was said to have been recovered from a bore hole at a depth of 1,525 feet, from the Eocene. This 'Zapata County' Texas iron has since been lost (Nature, January 22, 1981). Fritz Heide mentioned that 'The iron of Sardis, Burke County, Georgia, was found in 1940, in strata believed to be of Middle Miocene age.' (Heide,1964, pp.118-119.) We may conclude, therefore, that it is not true that fossil meteorites don't exist in the geologic record. However, recovering and identifying them is extremely rare." Walt Brown, who claims that fossil meteorites never are found, apparently doesn't know what he is talking about. :-) Sincerely, Keith Littleton <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:littlejo_at_vnet.net">littlejo@vnet.net</a> New Orleans, LA</pre> <br> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="$mailwrapcol">-- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin">http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin</a> Group Email Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:eurocoin_at_smartgroups.com">eurocoin@smartgroups.com</a> </pre> </body> </html> --------------040400000000030804010507--Received on Thu 02 Oct 2003 10:25:00 AM PDT |
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