[meteorite-list] EBay analysis (preliminary)

From: Jamie Stephens <j.stephens_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:28:36 2004
Message-ID: <3FA02759.1040900_at_morphism.com>

Listees,

I'm gonna suspend any more preliminary analysis publishing.
I've already started a discussion with EBay. Meanwhile, I'm
gonna continue experimenting with the analysis. If/when I
publish any more data, I'll obfuscate identities as I
described previously. Probably most of the interesting
analysis doesn't require identities anyway:

   Number of new bidders by week
   Number of new sellers by week
   Total items, dollars sold by week
   Distribution of prices by week

Any debate over those stats?

All of that data is now trivial to obtain (as the raw data
accumulates). It'll be fun to see the EBay meteorite market
trends in an objective and comprehensive way. Please stay
tuned.

This thread has evoled to non-meteoritical topics. Skip
the rest if you're interested in meteorite stuff only.

Paul,

Very nice discussion.

Yeah, when I said server load was EBay's "primary" concern,
I meant -- but did not write -- in the context of my specific
robot. For various reasons, I'd argue that it does not
consitute a derivate work or otherwise challenges EBay's
expressed concerns (not even privacy as discussed in their
text). Here are the numbered items from the EBay paragraph
you cite:

     (i) My stated "primary" concern; #1 on their list as well.
    (ii) There are lots of cases dealing with these terms.
         Is the fact that X bought Y from Z for $N enforceable
         "content"? Elsewhere EBay goes to trouble to position
         itself as a "venue". Interesting. All arguable --
         but not by me now.
   (iii) No interference with the site.
    (iv) No bypass of robot exclusions.

That said, my (experimental) robot is probably in violation of
EBay's User Agreement simply because the agreement prohibits
all robots. No need to research it, Mike. Whether the
agreement and other EBay statements would withstand challenges
from a system like mine is a different matter -- one I'm not
interested in pursuing. I'm asking permission.

Aside: EBay's robot prohibition is muddled. They do allow
for some "automated means" (e.g., auction and bidding tools).
Also note

   http://www.ebay.com/robots.txt

which, incidently, does not restrict the pages I use. Why not?

BTW, my background includes lots of large-scale data integration
work. Also I have fair amount of experience in intellectual
property licensing (including user agreements); patent
prosecution, infringement, and licensing; and other IP-related
activities. But, as I frequently say in this context, IANAL.
(I Am Not A Lawyer.) I do hang out with them a fair amount.
At Christmas, they send me gifts, which I fear they bought with
my money.

Thanks for the feedback, Paul.

--Jamie

LITIG8NSHARK_at_aol.com wrote:

> Good day Folks,
>
> I have been following the thread about the compilation of statistical
> information regarding the sales/purchases of meteorites on eBay.
> Personally, I found the compilation both interesting and informative and
> I have no objection to having been included in the published compilation.
>
> That having being said, I'd like to preface the following by stating
> that while I am by no means an expert in "cyber law", I am an attorney.
> I must admit that when "robots" were mentioned in a recent post to the
> list I had to do some research to try and figure out exactly what a
> robot was and what it did. I don't claim to be a computer
> programer/analyst either. Now that I have a rough idea what a "robot"
> is and what it does I'd like to share some of my thoughts regarding the
> compilation of statistical information from eBay.
>
> I accessed eBay's policy regarding the use of robots on it's site. I
> agree with one writer's proposition that one of the reasons eBay
> prohibits robots from accessing its site, in some circumstances, is to
> prevent a drain on its server. However, I can't entirely agree that
> that is eBay's primary goal. In October 1997, eBay was involved in a
> serious dispute with Onsale, a competitor, over Onsale's use of a robot
> program to harvest the email addresses of eBay users. (Note that in 1997
> eBay made it much easier than it is today to access the email addresses
> of members.) I suspect that it was subsequent to this dispute that eBay
> placed in its User Policy the prohibition against use of robots, spiders
> etc. It would appear that eBay is also interested in protecting itself
> from what it views as unfair competition.
>
> As can seen below in a paste of the pertinent part of eBay's user policy
> regarding *Access and Interference*, the use of robots is clearly
> prohibited absent express written permission from eBay. The policy
> language goes further in requiring that, even _with_ eBay's express
> written permission to use a robot for the creation of a derivative work
> (compilation of statistical information) on any other member other than
> yourself, you are obligated to obtain the express written permission of
> the "third party," which I interpret to mean the party who's information
> you are seeking to compile. This, I believe, is intended, at least in
> part, to provide for some level of privacy for eBay members.
>
> From a strict reading of eBay's policy language one could reasonably
> infer that it is not only the public dissemination of the compilation of
> statistical information that is being prohibited, absent the required
> express written permission of eBay and the third party affected, but
> *also* the private (unpublished) compilation itself. However, I sense
> that the prohibition of the compilation of statistical information for
> the /purely private use/ of the compiler might not be enforceable in
> court and might be attacked as being vague and overbroad given that
> eBay's software actually provides tools that allow for the compilation
> of such information. Granted, without the use of a robot program the
> compilation would be very time consuming, if not entirely impractical.
>
> Finally, putting aside any legal implications (as far as eBay is
> concerned) of compiling statistical information about eBay members, the
> publication of such information has the potential for what some might
> consider abuse. As an example, because the sale of items may have tax
> consequences for a seller in some countries, I can imagine a scenario
> where one disgruntled member might use, or threaten to use, the compiled
> information to the detriment of another member.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> *The preceding has not been intended to provide legal advise regarding
> the compilation of statistical information from eBay resources. It has
> simply been my thoughts and personal opinions. Should you have specific
> questions along this line you should consult with an expert in "cyber law".*
>
> Have a great day All.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Paul
>
>
> **
> *Access and Interference*.
> The Site contains robot exclusion headers. Much of the information on
> the Site is updated on a real time basis and is proprietary or is
> licensed to eBay by our users or third parties. You agree that you will
> not use any robot, spider, scraper or other automated means to access
> the Site for any purpose without our express written permission.
> Additionally, you agree that you will not: (i) take any action that
> imposes, or may impose in our sole discretion an unreasonable or
> disproportionately large load on our infrastructure; (ii) copy,
> reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute or publicly
> display any content (except for Your Information) from the Site without
> the prior expressed written permission of eBay and the appropriate third
> party, as applicable; (iii) interfere or attempt to interfere with the
> proper working of the Site or any activities conducted on the Site; or
> (iv) bypass our robot exclusion headers or other measures we may use to
> prevent or restrict access to the Site.
>
>
Received on Wed 29 Oct 2003 03:47:21 PM PST