FW: [meteorite-list] Iranian Fireball Was Of Geophysical Origin

From: Charles Viau <cviau_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:31:22 2004
Message-ID: <003601c3f23b$eefb8880$1800a8c0_at_chupa>

Rosie, et al...

That was interesting, and I read some of that as well. Another
possibility, and bit of a stretch.. but plausible: Just like we have
Martian meteorites here on earth, so would we not have some of the
ejecta from our terrestrial impacts also in orbit around the Sun, and
should we not expect some of our own material to come back to earth as
well? The question is what would material like that look like, and how
would it analyze? It should have characteristics of both terrestrial
matter, and matter that has been exposed to cosmic rays, with a fusion
crust from re-entry I would imagine. How could we prove (or disprove)
the origin of this material? Just another thought..

CharlyV

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Rosemary
Hackney
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:34 PM
To: Adam Hupe; meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iranian Fireball Was Of Geophysical Origin

Hello Adam, et al... Sorry I missed everyone at Tucson. Had the flu bug
or
some virus. Still is hanging on 3-4 weeks now. Doc said I would
live..lol.
I hope Michael forgave me for not showing up.. I tried to recruit Dean
in my
place.
Yes Tom.. I have some nice new ones :-)
A 8.6 gram Drakes Creek from Tennessee. An area near me. Is pretty. And
a
Huss Anthony I just won.

But back to the Elma... When I was around White Sands, I went to the
back
side to the Trinity site. I found a little rock shop outside the
boundary.
They had Trinitite form the Trinity site. I bought some of it. The Elma
reminds me of the Trinitite in composition and appearance.

As to the Geometeorites.. There is a nice article on the internet about
geometeorites. Just plug Geometeorite into a search engine. The
physicist
who wrote this article seemed to think Elma was a geometeorite. The
explanation made sense to me. From what I understand, it is formed when
Lightening fuses material aloft in the upper atmosphere. It stands to
reason material would be aloft from tornadoes or wind sheer or frontal
winds. When lightening strikes the material, it fuses into glass like
objects that fall out of the atmosphere... like meteorites.. ergo
"geometeorite" because the material was terrestrial in origin.

Anyway...just a thought.

Rosie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Hupe" <adamhupe_at_comcast.net>
To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iranian Fireball Was Of Geophysical Origin


> Dear Charles, Rosemary and List,
>
> Dr. Andrei Ol'khovatov from Moscow, Russia weighed in on the Elma
incident
> and came to the same conclusion, a geometeorite was to blame. It is
amazing
> how similar the two events are. The kid with the burnt fingers in
Elma
and
> a kid with a burnt face in Iran. Three laboratories weighed in on the
Elma
> incident. Two believe it to be a geophysical event and one believes
there
> is a more earthly explanation. To me it is an unsolved mystery. I
stopped
> commenting in public because there is no way to prove what happened
either
> way and it was causing some grief with a few List members.
>
> All the best,
>
> Adam Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> IMCA 2185
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charles Viau" <cviau_at_beld.net>
> To: "'Meteorite Mailing List'" <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 1:53 PM
> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Iranian Fireball Was Of Geophysical
Origin
>
>
> > It very well could be related, and why it was so important to
properly
> > document the Elma incident, even though all of the 'experts' gave
the
> > principal investigators such grief. This is what science is all
about. I
> > would hope that there are some geo-physicists out there that will
want
> > to pull some of this material together from those 3 sources and look
for
> > similarities. The people who witnessed such events were not stupid,
nor
> > were they having any hallucinations.
> >
> > CharlyV
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com
> > [mailto:meteorite-list-admin_at_meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
Rosemary
> > Hackney
> > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 2:12 PM
> > To: Ron Baalke; Meteorite Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iranian Fireball Was Of Geophysical
Origin
> >
> > Is this similar to the Elma incident? Elma intrigues me. It looks
like
> > sand
> > or particulate material having been fused. Perhaps was sucked up by
a
> > dust
> > devil or other storm wind and electrical discharge in the
atmosphere
> > fused
> > it like glass? Anyway.. is this Iranian material considered a
> > geometeorite
> > also?
> >
> > Rosie
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ron Baalke" <baalke_at_zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
> > To: "Meteorite Mailing List" <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 11:38 AM
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Iranian Fireball Was Of Geophysical Origin
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.nojum.net/news/newse.asp?newsid=34
> > >
> > > PRESS-RELEASE: Feb 8, 2004
> > > CONTACTS: Mr. Pouria Nazemi,
> > > Tel: +98 (021) 827 0029
> > > E mail : news_at_nojum.net
> > >
> > > INTERNATIONAL GROUP OF EXPERTS COMES TO CONCLUSION THAT THE
FIREBALL
> > > FALLEN ON THE IRANIAN TOWN OF BABOL ON JANUARY 2, 2004 WAS NOT A
> > METEORITE,
> > > BUT WAS OF GEOPHYSICAL ORIGIN
> > >
> > > On January 2, 2004 a report appeared about a meteorite fall on the
> > town
> > > of Babol, Iran. A group of Iranian experts associated with Nojum
> > (Astronomy)
> > > magazine began to investigate. The group consisted of Mr. Pouria
> > Nazemi,
> > who
> > > has a large expertise in seeking scientific news and contacted
many
> > > organizations to collect more information and also a science
> > journalist
> > > (Mathematics BSc.), Miss Mohaddesseh Azimlu who was looking for
> > physical
> > > explanation for such events since the previous one in some months
ago
> > > (Physics Ms.)
> > >
> > > Mr. Iman Naderi, a serious amateur astronomer who didn't miss a
moment
> > to
> > > reach the place and make early report and photos, Mr. Siavash
> > Safarianpour
> > > who organizes a daily live TV program in popular astronomy and Mr.
> > Oshin
> > > Zakarian, a nature and night sky photographer.
> > >
> > > Witnesses reported that the event started with seismic, and sound
> > phenomena,
> > > which were followed by unordinary light inside house and explosion
> > with a
> > > loud sound and ended by falling of a fireball which threw out
sparks
> > and
> > was
> > > described as a " suspended lightning "about 2 meters in diameter
and
> > > disappeared spontaneously. The boy who came out first and saw the
ball
> > had
> > > burnt his face, but nobody else was hurt.
> > >
> > > Despite that the investigation continues, already now it is
possible
> > to
> > > state that the event had nothing to do with a fall of an
> > extraterrestrial
> > > body, and evidently was of geophysical origin.
> > >
> > > Investigation of damage in the town caused by the event reveals
that a
> > > house, which was in the epicenter of the explosion, was badly
damaged
> > by
> > the
> > > explosion, and many houses within several hundred meters from it
have
> > some
> > > minor damage. No traces of meteorite or any other object fallen
were
> > > discovered. The damage of the house partly was as caused by some
> > energy
> > > source inside the house, while possibility of a gas explosion etc.
can
> > be
> > > excluded.
> > >
> > > After coming to conclusion that the event was caused neither by a
> > > meteorite, nor by any known made object, the Iranian experts
contacted
> > > Dr. Andrei Ol'khovatov from Moscow, Russia.
> > >
> > > He has a special web-page ( http://olkhov.narod.ru/gr1997.htm ) ,
> > devoted
> > to
> > > similar unexplained fireball falls, which have nothing to do with
> > meteorite
> > > falls, but are of geophysical origin. Dr. Ol'khovatov prefers to
call
> > them
> > > geophysical meteors or just geometeors. According to him, these
events
> > are
> > > poorly known, and little plausible physical mechanism was proposed
for
> > them
> > > yet, but observational data points that geometeors in many aspects
> > resemble
> > > an energetic high-speed "ball-lightning". Anyway, a statistical
> > analysis
> > > conducted by Dr. Ol'khovatov revealed that geometeors have a
tendency
> > to
> > > occur in some special geophysical situations.
> > >
> > > So Dr. Ol'khovatov has joined the group of Iranian researchers in
> > > investigation of the Babol event. One of the tasks was to check
> > whether
> > > geophysical situation of the Babol event was favorable for
geometeors,
> > > especially in an aspect of cloudiness development in the region.
It
> > was
> > > checked through satellite meteorological diagrams and however it
> > didn't
> > show
> > > any cloud in the region, but starting changes in weather
condition.
> > >
> > > The Babol fireball was neither the first nor the last one in Iran.
> > Some
> > > months ago Nojum received a report about observing a fire ball on
May
> > 23,
> > > 2003 in Marzanabad, in North of Iran. It was in a rainy evening
and
> > big
> > > thunders occurred continuously. Witnesses saw a high speed
fireball
> > hit
> > two
> > > old big trees, broke them with a very loud sound and continued its
> > way.
> > The
> > > electricity broke in village for a few hours.
> > >
> > > On January 21, 2004 another fireball came to visit an Iranian
village
> > in
> > > North West, near MeshkinShahr in Ardabil state. It was again a
stormy
> > night
> > > that a white fireball, bigger than full moon appeared in the sky
and
> > after
> > > few minutes disappeared. Simultaneously electricity broke in the
whole
> > area
> > > for several hours and a house was damaged. A part of roof covering
was
> > > disappeared and a wall and door was broken with a loud sound.
> > >
> > > As both these two events have happened in stormy weather with
thunders
> > and
> > > lightning, investigators come to conclude that they should be
ordinary
> > "ball
> > > lightnings" that may be produced in such conditions. During
natural
> > > lightning a part of air molecules become ionized (which is called
> > plasma)
> > > and shine as a flash in a moment and come back to ordinary state
(we
> > saw
> > it
> > > as the path of lightning); but in rarely conditions that we still
> > don't
> > know
> > > completely this plasma is caught in a ball shape and if hits
anything
> > may
> > > release a lot of energy like a lightning with same loud sound and
> > > destruction. We know very little about natural ball lightnings,
but
> > can
> > make
> > > them artificially in very small size in laboratory.
> > >
> > > Anyway, the investigation continues, as those events and specially
> > that
> > one
> > > in Babol gives a rare possibility to get a lot of data about such
> > poorly
> > > known meteorological or geophysical phenomena.
> > >
> > > Group members are also waiting for your reports about any similar
> > > observations at news_at_nojum.net.
> > >
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________
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> > >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
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Received on Fri 13 Feb 2004 09:16:07 AM PST