[meteorite-list] Self Proclaimed Pairing List

From: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri Nov 12 11:25:02 2004
Message-ID: <069301c4c8d1$a8a19ba0$6401a8c0_at_c1720188a>

Good Morning,

It is funny when I mentioned the Amgala (Working Name) issue several months
ago I was met with criticism by a well known dealer. It is my belief that
over 4 kilograms of Zag cleaned with an air abrasion tool has been put into
circulation as Amgala. We were offered over 4 kilograms of this material
and became suspicious when we cut a sample and found oxidation staining had
penetrated the complete slice. We also found some with a black lithology,
something never found in Amgala. Some pieces had red clay imbedded in
contraction cracks that an air abrasion tool missed. There is only one in
Eurfud.

We sent the material back and told the overseas dealer what he was offering
was cleaned Zag. He denied any involvement in the cleaning, blamed it on
somebody else and said it would never be offered again. Then I see another
dealer selling the exact same thing who will not accept that he has been
hoodwinked. I posted some of the following things to look out for in the
past:

Contraction cracks- Rarely found in Amgala
Red clay in cracks
Oxide staining throughout a complete slice - Amgala has surface staining
only
Black lithology

If you see any of the above contact your dealer.

Yes, you can make the outside of Zag look almost like Amgala with the proper
tool but internal oxidation is impossible to disguise. If you look very
careful at images posted around the internet you will know who the dealer
is. It is our hope that he will admit he is in error and offer refunds.
This applies to anybody else engaged in this scam.

If in doubt, check it out!

Adam





----- Original Message -----
From: "JKGwilliam" <h3chondrite_at_cox.net>
To: "Roman Jirasek" <rom_at_look.ca>; "Adam Hupe" <raremeteorites@comcast.net>
Cc: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 7:39 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Self Proclaimed Pairing List


> Good Morning Adam, Roman and List,
>
> Roman makes a very valid point here. It would be nice to know who among
us
> is intentionally pulling a 'bait and switch' with Amgala. Unfortunately,
> for someone to make such an allegation public can result in legal
problems.
>
> Adam, since you have publicly declared you are aware of this problem,
don't
> you now have a responsibility to correct it? You have encouraged all list
> members to step up to the challenge of fixing the NWA self proclaimed
> pairing issue and I applaud the effort you have made. You and Greg have a
> right to protect your investment you have made in getting NWA meteorites
> properly classified and then onto the market. Doesn't the same rule apply
> to Amgala? Don't other meteorite collectors/investors have a right to
> protect their investments? I'd hate to think that a bunch of Zag ends up
> in collections labeled as Amgalas with no way of sorting out the problem
> after the fact.
>
> I don't know how the Amgala/Zag issue can be resolved properly. My guess
> is it would end up being one persons word against anothers. But since you
> have already "quietly dropped a loud hint", the ball is in your
> court. Don't take this as a personal attack, I consider you a friend and
> in no way am I trying to offend or provoke you. I'm merely saying that if
> your goal is to clean up the problems in our meteorite community, let's
fix
> the Amgala problem too.
>
> Best,
>
> John Gwilliam
>
> At 06:53 AM 11/12/2004, Roman Jirasek wrote:
> > > Amgala*
> > > Cleaned Zag being substituted, only one well known dealer still at
fault.
> >
> >Hi Adam, are you at liberty to let us know who this dealer is?
> >I think the collecting community needs to know. I would hate
> >to see a collector buy a Zag thinking it was a fresh new fall.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >
> >Roman Jirasek
> >www.meteoritelabels.com
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Adam Hupe" <raremeteorites_at_comcast.net>
> >To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 11:45 PM
> >Subject: [meteorite-list] Self Proclaimed Pairing List
> >
> >
> > > Dear List,
> > >
> > > While studying the problems associated with number borrowing I came up
> >with
> > > a list of the most abused names. I see there have been some
improvements
> > > lately in this area such as web sites have been changed, some are
using
> >the
> > > term suspected pairing and others are submitting suspected pairings to
> > > laboratories. This is good news and will help improve collector
> >confidence.
> > > If every dealer did his/her best to follow the rules set forth by the
> > > NomCom, meteorite collecting could evolve to the next plateau. Here
are a
> > > few examples that could stand some improvement:
> > >
> > >
> > > Amgala*
> > > Cleaned Zag being substituted, only one well known dealer still at
fault.
> > >
> > > NWA 1109*
> > > Still being sold as a Howardite - Name borrowed heavily - Self
proclaimed
> > > pairings
> > >
> > > NWA 1068
> > > Self proclaimed pairings
> > >
> > > NWA 1110*
> > > Mass self proclaimed pairings
> > >
> > > NWA 1877*
> > > Self proclaimed pairings
> > >
> > > NWA 1817*
> > > Self proclaimed pairings
> > >
> > > NWA 1827
> > > Self proclaimed pairings
> > >
> > > NWA 1878*
> > > Self proclaimed pairings
> > >
> > > NWA 1929
> > > Mass self proclaimed pairings
> > >
> > > NWA 3118*
> > > Mass self proclaimed pairings
> > >
> > > NWA 3140*
> > > Mass self proclaimed pairings
> > >
> > > * Studies paid for by The Hupe Collection
> > >
> > > As you can see by the number of asterisks we have a large investment
in
> >the
> > > above listed meteorites. This is why we take exception to anybody
using
> > > these numbers that has not made their material official. We spend
> >thousands
> > > every month on the study of NWA material and do not depend on grant
money.
> > > This money comes directly out of our pockets. I hope a month from now
> >this
> > > list is shorter. I will become more specific if needed in the future.
> >Now
> > > lets have some fun doing the right thing.
> > >
> > > All the best,
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > > Adam Hupe
> > > The Hupe Collection
> > > Team LunarRock
> > > IMCA 2185
> > > raremeteorites_at_comcast.net
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >______________________________________________
> >Meteorite-list mailing list
> >Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
Received on Fri 12 Nov 2004 11:05:04 AM PST