[meteorite-list] ET re Another fake name, serious business

From: Michael Farmer <meteoritehunter_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue Nov 16 20:46:56 2004
Message-ID: <02cd01c4cc47$548baa00$0200a8c0_at_S0031628003>

I don't think so Rob, falls and named meteorites are a different creature
totally from the NWA flood.
That amount of material, all being divided up in Morocco and sold to various
people has caused this problem. The numbering system, while not perfect, is
all we have. There is alot of paired material out there, but the danger lies
in people lumping stones together without cutting them. Seeing individuals
being sold of my NWA 2085 is a tragedy. How does one know it is paired with
mine when uncut? It looks like any other chondrite on the outside, but when
cut, it is a piece almost without rival, so to see uncut pieces being
offered as the same thing irks me.
I say show me, cut it, and lets compare, then call it the same.
But back to the numbering system, it only works if people respect it, and
don't start making bathroom pairings after digging through a box of rocks
fresh from Morocco.
I have been doing this for years, and let me tell you, just when I think
something is paired with a piece I already have, more times than not when I
cut it, I find a completely different rock.
Michael Farmer.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Wesel" <nakhladog_at_comcast.net>
To: "Michael Farmer" <meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net>; "Michael L Blood"
<mlblood_at_cox.net>; "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ET re Another fake name, serious business


> In all fairness, this "scam" and "mooching" has been the way of things for
> a couple hundred years now. Just because the Nom Com has imposed different
> naming rules on NWA meteorites does not mean that every Gao, every
> Murchison, every L'Aigle hasn't been sold by this mooching scam. It is not
> called theft in the non-NWA arena, it is called competition. Every dealer
> is in a glass house in this regard and blinding the real issue, a quick
> fix effort by the Nom Com versus really coming up with a viable mutual
> solution, is destructive to the dealers and collectors alike.
>
>
>
> Rob Wesel
> ------------------
> We are the music makers...
> and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> Willy Wonka, 1971
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Farmer" <meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net>
> To: "Michael L Blood" <mlblood_at_cox.net>; "Meteorite List"
> <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 4:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ET re Another fake name, serious business
>
>
>> Again Michael, first off he is selling publicly, so why should it not be
>> discussed publicly? The damage has been done to me in public, so I see no
>> need to try and hush this up.
>> I know that Edwin and you are good friends, and that you depend on his
>> stuff for sale and for your auctions, so I would suggest to you that when
>> you have stuff listed for your upcoming Tucson auction, that you make a
>> disclaimer that tells people who submit that they better know what they
>> are submitting and should have the rights to use the classification.
>> I fear that a scene will ensue if I come into your auction and find
>> meteorites being falsely sold there using my numbers.
>> I have spoken privately today to several people and this is a problem
>> which is about to explode.
>> Freeloaders are too lazy or cheap to do their own work and are mooching
>> off of those dealers and collectors who take the time and spend their
>> hard-earned money to make all of the analyses. I will not stand by
>> quietly while people are mooching off of my work, and selling an item
>> using false pairing claims.
>> This is extremely serious business.
>> I have more money that you know invested in my work and my stones, and I
>> will not allow people to try and lump their stuff under my numbers.
>>
>> How do you collectors feel? You are being had, being sold rocks with
>> cards and the expectation that it is what they say it is, and now we see
>> that isn't the case! Your stones may be worth far less than you realize
>> if pairings are being made by looking at the outside of a stone!
>> I think it is time to demand paperwork from your dealers, classification
>> data on stones, showing that it is what they say, or is fully classified
>> as a pairing.
>> That is the only way we can stop this scam, is by forcing people to show
>> documentation to prove it is what they claim it is.
>> Michael Farmer
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Michael L Blood" <mlblood_at_cox.net>
>> To: "Mike Farmer & Melody" <meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net>; "Meteorite
>> List" <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 4:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ET re Another fake name, serious business
>>
>>
>>> Hi Mike,
>>> The issue I made is NOT who is right or wrong.
>>> If you were to post a very similar announcement,
>>> saying you had addressed this issue with ET and was told to take a
>>> long walk off a short pier and he didn't care what you thought
>>> about what he was doing and you think collectors should be
>>> aware this is going on - THAT WOULD BE A TOTALLY DIFFERENT
>>> situation.
>>> Instead, you FIRST publicly chastise him. Whatever
>>> is going on - that is a poor start at ANY attempt for remedy,
>>> regardless of the circumstances involved. You don't know
>>> what is take on the situation is - you haven't even addressed
>>> the issue with him. MAYBE there is a good explanation - MAYBE
>>> there isn't. MAYBE he looked at it one way and will change his
>>> perspective once he hears what you have to say - MAYBE he
>>> won't.... we don't know, because YOU HAVEN'T TALKED TO HIM
>>> ABOUT IT.
>>> There are a good many of us who will be far more
>>> interested in ANY issue you have with any other dealer IF you
>>> report civil attempts to resolve the issue on your part met
>>> with a lack of cooperation on their part.
>>> THEN I start wondering what is going on. Then I start
>>> listening to the content. However, when it is a one way mud
>>> throwing event, all I see is mud throwing - the content is
>>> unimportant to me if the process isn't clean.
>>> Other than that, thanks for a relatively civil response on
>>> your part.
>>> Sincerely, Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> on 11/16/04 3:10 PM, Michael Farmer at meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Michael, you seem to leave out the obvious, he is using numbers for
>>>> meteorites sitting in my safe, I paid to have classified and worked.
>>>> Michael, can you explain that, or does it not matter since he is your
>>>> friend.
>>>> This is very simple Michael, no genius needed here.
>>>> I will make it simple though
>>>> Guy A owns an item.
>>>> Guy B starts selling the same item which is not possible since it is
>>>> sitting
>>>> guy A's safe.
>>>> Who is the liar here? Guy A who paid to have the stone classified or
>>>> Guy B
>>>> who did not?
>>>> So calm down Blood, and look at things rationally.
>>>> Michael Farmer
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Michael L Blood" <mlblood_at_cox.net>
>>>> To: "Mike Farmer & Melody" <meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net>; "Meteorite
>>>> List"
>>>> <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 3:57 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ET re Another fake name, serious business
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Yes,
>>>>> I, indeed, do have an opinion:
>>>>> It is one thing to lamblast Matteo, who has dealt dirty with
>>>>> numerous members of this list or even to sling mud back & forth
>>>>> between yourself and Adam - it is quite another to go off on
>>>>> a person of E.T.'s dignity, venerable tenure and hard earned
>>>>> reputation for honesty!
>>>>> Anyone on this list who has dealt with ET will tell you he
>>>>> bends over backwards for even the most obnoxious customer
>>>>> (I have SEEN him do this, myself), NEVER rips people off and
>>>>> has been dealing meteorites as long as anyone (and I mean
>>>>> ANYONE) in the business.
>>>>> You even ADMIT you have not spoken to him about this,
>>>>> so WHAT IN THE HELL are you doing posting it to the list!?
>>>>> Get a grip.
>>>>> If you somehow lack contact information, contact me and I
>>>>> will be happy to supply you with his phone number and email
>>>>> address.
>>>>> If you can't manage to act like a gentleman, at least pretend
>>>>> to have a modicum of decency and good business sense!
>>>>> Sincerely, Michael Blood
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> on 11/16/04 1:14 PM, Michael Farmer at meteoritehunter_at_comcast.net
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone out there got any opinions on this?
>>>>>> Here is another example of false name given to unclassified
>>>>>> meteorite.
>>>>>> http://www.polandmet.com/_nwa1906.htm
>>>>>> This is POLANDMET, who has a page selling NWA 1906, a Rumuruti.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, here is my page, of NWA 1906, the only stone classified and
>>>>>> given
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> number:
>>>>>> http://www.meteoriteguy.com/nwa1906.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problem, that is my meteorite, one stone, no pairings ever
>>>>>> announced.
>>>>>> Take a look at the two pages, the meteorites are not even similar in
>>>>>> any
>>>>>> way.
>>>>>> Mine is NWA 1906, since I had it classified, Polandmet's does not
>>>>>> even
>>>>>> come
>>>>>> close to mine. It doesn't look the same, it has much larger
>>>>>> chondrules,
>>>>>> multicolored, and is just totally different. Not to mention that
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> clearly two different meteorites on that same page. Note the slices
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> top,
>>>>>> very nice clear multicolored chondrules, then the slices are the
>>>>>> bottom,
>>>>>> smaller chondrules, more weathered, clearly brecciated.
>>>>>> These meteorites are totally different.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am publicly demanding from Polandmet to answer this.
>>>>>> What makes you think that you can sell a meteorite under the number
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> stone received? What makes you think they are paired? Why are you
>>>>>> doing
>>>>>> this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Edwin Thompson is the one who is using a whole host of my numbers, I
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> not spoken with him yet, but there is no justification for it other
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> trying to pawn off unclassified meteorites as names pieces.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This has the potential to collapse the entire meteorite market.
>>>>>> We are only as good as our name, and I have worked very hard to do
>>>>>> things
>>>>>> right. I would NEVER sell someone a meteorite that is not what it is
>>>>>> claimed
>>>>>> to be.
>>>>>> But this is what these dealers are doing, making visual pairings to
>>>>>> keep
>>>>>> from having to do their own work.
>>>>>> Buyer beware, it seems that the only way to get official material is
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> buy
>>>>>> from the dealer who made the official classification.
>>>>>> Michael Farmer
>>>>>> Awaiting a response from Polandmet and Edwin Thompson.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.meteoriteguy.com/nwa1906.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>> Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
Received on Tue 16 Nov 2004 08:46:56 PM PST