[meteorite-list] Re: Blood Auction Results

From: Walter Branch <branchw_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri Feb 18 06:16:47 2005
Message-ID: <005201c515aa$c24bd360$6101a8c0_at_launchmodem.com>

Hi Michael and List,

Please don't take this as an way to begin
an argument because that is not my intent but I disagree
with every point you make. I think auction
prices should be posted. Here is why.

>reason, people are under the misconception
>that the price at an auction means something
>about the "value" of said material.

"Value" may have different meanings: emotional,
sentimental, financial, trade, etc. Since the medium
of exchange was money, I presume we are talking
about the financial value.

Strictly focusing on the financial value, the auction
price says EVERYTHING about the value. How
can it not? Every business transaction says something
about the value of the object being aquired, whether
it is a meteorite or AT&T. Is the auction price a
rigid or absolute value that should be strictly adhered to
in future transactions. No, but it is one piece of data.

Besides, a dealer can also benefit from knowing the
auction price. Suppose material has been sitting on the
dealers site for some time but no sales. Maybe, just maybe,
that dealer has priced him/herself of the the maket.
Maybe the dealer would lower their asking price to
a more realistic level if they knew what a more realistic
level was. Posting auction prices may (underline may) help
the dealer. On the other hand, if the dealer has knowingly
posted prices that are unrealistc, then that is the dealers choice.

>even heard a DEALER state that price at auction DEFINES market
>value! I could not disagree more.

I agree with the dealer. I just did a search on ebay for the word
"meteorite." The search yielded 1223 results. Granted, not all of
these lots will be rocks from space but the true number of
meteorites currently listed on ebay is more than most dealers
have in their inventory!

What about dealers who sell exclusively on ebay? Isn't that
their market.

I would be willing to wager that more meteorites are sold on ebay in a
week than most individual dealers sell in a year. You are saying that is
not
a market?

>What the price at auction means is that
>1) Given all the other items up for sale AND ...

Well, this is true for every transaction that has ever occured
and every transaction that ever will occur, whether it is
meteoites or bread. It is a cogent description of a
business transaction but it is no reason not to post
prices realized.

>In other words, it means NOTHING in terms of the market.

Well, what exactly is the market?

Just yesterday, I received a beautiful meteorite from one of
my favorite, most trustworthy dealers. I am very pleased
with it, including the price I paid. BTW, the price I paid is lower
than the price advertised. I am happy with the specimen, the dealer,
and the price. No one knows, and no one will know, the price
I paid for the specimen. Is that the market?

What about all those pieces which sit on dealers shelves, virtual or
otherwise, going unsold because their prices are higher than most
other dealers. Unsold meteorites. Is that the market?

Take this example. A dealer lists new material at his/her
site for a given amount and it sells quickly for the stated price.
Is this the market? It is part of themaket but I would also say
this is the exception. No price reduction, no negotiating,
sells quickly. Is this the norm? I don't think so.
Does it happen? Of course. But perhaps not as much as it used to.

>Have you ever heard of... for less than 10% of the "market" in the area?

How would you know what the "market" is unless you had the data?
If the prices of houses where never known, you would not know
whether the price was 10% less, 10% more or anything.

>Or someone paying 5 times the "market value" of a meteorite
>on ebay

How do we know the "maket value" unless we have the data?

Have you ever heard of someone buying a house without knowing
comparable prices in that area?

Has anyone else noticed that for literally months the same small fragment
of Allende has appeared on ebay from the same seller for the same
price ($45.00). Why hasn't anyone on this list bought it? Because we
all know that it is overpriced. How do we know that it is overpriced?
We have a variety of data from a variety of sources and we all plug
in that data into one bid multiple regression formula in out heads
to determine a price we are willing to pay. Your auction is one
source of information.

Dealers love to hype, "rare," "new," "unique" and my favorite "very unique"
material. What is the "market value? for this material? Has enough sold
to determine maket value? How can buyer a buyer make an informed
decision without being informed? By having information.

Yes, I know the true value of something is whatever someone is willing to
pay for it (a tried and true statement which I have used many times) but how
do I determine what I am willing to pay for an object (such as a meteorite)?
I have data.

>beat him down on a price of something saying...

It's called negotiating. Happens all the time. Do you pay full sticker
price
for a car? I don't.

Besides, dealers themselves ask for this. How many times have we seen posts
to the effect (paraphrasing here), "just make an offer on anything."

>Furthermore, dealers in Tucson almost all had to:
>A) Travel a long distance

What does this have to do with prices realized? What about those who
consigned without attending Tucson. What about those who consigned
who are not dealers?

>completely arbitrary comparison to a one night a year auction.

Completely arbitrary? Are you serious? You mean everyong bidding
did so a a completely arbitray manner. There were no informed bidders?

Besides if this is the "peoples auction" is seems to me that the
"people" should know the prices realized. Protecting the
prices of dealers would make this the "dealers auction."

-Walter
Received on Fri 18 Feb 2005 06:12:09 AM PST