[meteorite-list] Meteorite smugglers anger scientists - stamp collection

From: mark ford <markf_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 14:59:42 +0100
Message-ID: <6CE3EEEFE92F4B4085B0E086B2941B31293CAA_at_s-southern01.s-southern.com>

>> And nothing of that information can be extracted from "cleaned" and
oiled specimens.>>

... maybe cleaned and oiled is the same as - stuck in the soil/desert
for 300+ years, (i.e just as contaminated!)

>> What is the interest of the meteorites to the average "collector"?
They are simply "nice" or "interesting", isn`t it?
Like a collection of stamps? >>

I disagree. yes maybe some collectors do see meteorites solely as
'desirable objects' rather than just 'scientific specimens' most don't.
- so what. Also remember a lot of discoveries are also due to amateurs,
sometimes in part, sometimes even entirely. Just because we have a
proper day job doesn't mean we don't do science!!!! :) lol.

 Besides not everything in life has to always be about hard science my
friend, without the continued support and interest of the public the
funding WILL dry up, I don't know of many non-publically funded
meteorite research organizations???

 what gives one group of people the moral right to 'own' all the space
rocks over another? Is ridiculous. This is Just the last cries of some
dinosaurs who are very much the minority, if these people want the rocks
they should go find them themselves, and quit whining at the rest of us.


Mark


-----Original Message-----
From: Armando Afonso [mailto:armandoafonso at oniduo.pt]
Sent: 17 April 2007 09:51
To: mark ford; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite smugglers anger scientists -
stamp collection

By the way,
What is the interest of the meteorites to the average "collector"?
They are simply "nice" or "interesting", isn`t it?
Like a collection of stamps?
Most of the real interest of this materials relates to statistics of
chemical and isotopical composition and other arid informations, of no
interest to a linguistic student or a plumber, I believe. And nothing of

that information can be extracted from "cleaned" and oiled specimens.
I have myself a few common meteorites as a complement of a systematic
mineral collection, to represent the native elements namely, but I don`t
see
the interest of keeping a specimen with features that I can not
appreciate
or put in evidence for some objective purpose.
For that reason, a very rare meteorite would be a waste in my
collection.
A serious protocol is needed to collect and store this materials, if the

specimen value is to be preserved.
Regards.
AA


---- Original Message -----
From: "mark ford" <markf at ssl.gb.com>
To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite smugglers anger scientists


> Don't forget there are actually LOTS of Antarctic meteorites! I'd say
> those figures are pretty good considering most (though not all) NWA's
> are usually quite weathered, and off a bit less science value than the
> pristine ones collected on ice... That's probably why the statistics
> show non NWA's are under represented in literature. I doubt it's
because
> NWA's are too expensive to work on.
>
>
> Best
> Mark Ford
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
> Grossman
> Sent: 17 April 2007 01:42
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite smugglers anger scientists
>
> At 06:29 PM 4/16/2007, ensoramanda wrote:
>>So if science is "losing important material for study" to
>>dealers/hunters/collectors of NWA's, why dont we hear much about all
>>the amazing research that must be coming out of the thousands of
>>meteorites from Antarctica? !!! Science has exclusive use of these
>>but I never seem to hear much exciting news about them...or am I
>>just not looking in the right place?
>>
>>Graham Ensor, nr Barwell UK
>
> You are looking in the wrong place. Far more important research
> results have been coming from the Antarctic meteorites than from hot
> desert meteorites.
>
> I did a quick count of meteorites used in studies published in both
> major meteoritics and cosmochemistry journals in 2006. Each tally
> means one meteorite mentioned in one paper (if the same meteorite is
> mentioned in 6 papers, it counts for 6). Here are the results:
>
> Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta:
>
> Saharan+Oman meteorites: 22
> Antarctic meteorites: 62
> Non-Antarctic/non-saharan meteorites: 109 plus one paper with 50.
>
> In Meteoritics and Planetary Science:
>
> Saharan+Oman meteorites: 10
> Antarctic meteorites: 80 plus one paper with many.
> Non-Antarctic/non-saharan meteorites: 106 plus one paper with many.
>
> The real question is, why are hot desert meteorites so miserably
> UNDER-represented in the literature. I think there are several
> answers, and there are probably many more:
>
> 1) Falls are often the most valuable samples for research due to lack
> of weathering.
> 2) Research specimens of hot desert meteorites tend to be very small.
> 3) Hot desert meteorite are not well distributed in the research
> collections of the world (especially in the US), and are much harder
> for scientists to obtain.
> 4) All of the major Antarctic collections are well curated and have
> formal procedures in place for obtaining samples.
> 5) Hot desert meteorite collections are useless for the study of
irons.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>>Greg Hupe wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Darren, Mike and List,
>>>
>>>I couldn't have said it better myself! It takes a huge investment
>>>to limp away from Morocco with a planetary or other rare meteorite
>>>these days. I would have said "walk away", but after having to give
>>>up your right arm, left leg, first born, etc. to get one of these.
>>>Well, you get the idea!
>>>
>>>Happy collecting!
>>>Greg
>>>
>>>====================
>>>Greg Hupe
>>>The Hupe Collection
>>>NaturesVault (eBay)
>>>gmhupe at tampabay.rr.com
>>>www.LunarRock.com
>>>IMCA 3163
>>>====================
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Farmer"
> <meteoriteguy at yahoo.com>
>>>To: <cynapse at charter.net>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 4:27 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite smugglers anger scientists
>>>
>>>
>>>>The Moroccans are smarter now than most collectors.
>>>>You will not get a lunar or Martian meteorite cheap
>>>>there now. 90% of them can recognize one in a second.
>>>>Don't feel too sorry for most of the Moroccans, they
>>>>make much more money than most of us dealers who pay
>>>>nearly retail for the material IN MOROCCO, and they
>>>>live quite well off of the meteorites. It has greatly
>>>>impacted the financial well-being of most of them
>>>>involved in the meteorite trade. I mean come on, now
>>>>they get tens of thousands of $$$ for a black rock
>>>>they picked up in the sand. How often does that happen
>>>>to someone in Germany or the UK?
>>>>Michael Farmer
>>>>--- Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:06:52 -0400, you wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >Hello Moni and List,
>>>>> >If the article is referring to unclassified
>>>>>material,which would make sense,
>>>>> >thereby allowing material never to reach the
>>>>>scientific community, the point
>>>>> >is well taken.
>>>>>
>>>>>The problem with that argument is that from the
>>>>>stories that the people who go
>>>>>to Morocco tell, those nomads aren't nearly as
>>>>>clueless as the article writer
>>>>>claims that they are. They may have been at first,
>>>>>but they learned to notice
>>>>>the difference between a common meteorite and a
>>>>>valuable one. Which is why
>>>>>people like MF and the Hupes have to make big
>>>>>negotiations to get their lunars,
>>>>>Martians, and other rare achondrites instead of
>>>>>getting them for 10 cents a gram
>>>>>in heaps of OCs. The rare stuff is going to be
>>>>>recognized by the original
>>>>>dealers and sold at rare stuff prices to rare stuff
>>>>>dealers/collectors.
>>>>>______________________________________________
>>>>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>______________________________________________
>>>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>
>>>______________________________________________
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>>>
>>______________________________________________
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184
> US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383
> 954 National Center
> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>
>
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Received on Tue 17 Apr 2007 09:59:42 AM PDT