[meteorite-list] WG: Clepto Convention at TUCSON...

From: Martin Altmann <altmann_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 02:46:39 +0100
Message-ID: <01ad01c74d7e$7c88b2e0$4568a8c0_at_name86d88d87e2>

Ooops, seems not have it made through yesterday....


Well Zep,

although I?m lying in bed in Tucson with the Uruquay-Influenza (Hans, I?ll
gona be famous to have it brought to Europe),
I really want to miss my 1st-Tucson-experience. It IS indeed the Mekka of
stones, 40 different shows going on parallely, if then some not yet cleared
circumstances at one single event will keep you from visiting Tucson
nobody
can help you.

Not only that it?s most probably the most important event to catch sight of
novelties concerning desert material and not to forget the real show- and
masterpieces of historical specimens, which you won?t find to such an extend
at the Old-World-Shows,
but it is the people, collectors, hunters, dealers likewise - the meteorite
community ? which makes that event to an extraordinary highlight in the
meteorite calendar!

I want to express my warmest thanks to all of them, who made my first visit
to an extraordinary experience,
to list you all by name would be to long.

He, Zep, aside from the fact, that we all want our specimens for free, I
guess you missed a lot of legal steals, not only from our room ? and Zep, if
you prefer a more cosy show, contact immediately ?Zel?,

See you in Ensisheim!
Martin

________________________________________
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von rob szep
Gesendet: Freitag, 9. Februar 2007 21:59
An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Clepto Convention at TUCSON...

More show-and-tell and steal & sell...
?
Sounds to me like there was a CLEPTOMANIAC Convention happening at Tucson at
the same as the Rock Show...
?
Glad I missed the ''show"... seems more and more like a giant get-together
of two-faced, double-crossin', backstabbin' rock-floggers and
rock-"snatchers."
?
??????????????????????????????????????????????? Looking forward to missing
next year's too.
?
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
??????????????????????????? ?"Zep", over & out...
?

?
----- Original Message ----
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<meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, 8 February, 2007 8:41:30 PM
Subject: Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 39, Issue 30
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Today's Topics:

?? 1. macovich to come out of semi-retirement? (Darryl Pitt)
?? 2. Re: Fraud or Stolen meteorites in Tucson ??? (JKGwilliam)
?? 3. Re: Lang proxy bid? (JKGwilliam)
?? 4. Re: a few other auction surprises (Eric Twelker)
?? 5.??Lang Auction (Bob Evans)
?? 6. Re: Lang Auction (Michael Farmer)
?? 7. Lang Auction (David Weir)
?? 8. Re: Update on Walter (Jose Campos)
?? 9.??a few other auction surprises (Mike Fowler)
??10.??Lang Auction (Bob Evans)
??11. Re: a few other auction surprises (Peter Marmet)
??12. French Meteorite Hunters Article (Gary K. Foote)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 16:12:58 -0500
From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] macovich to come out of semi-retirement?
To: "Jim Strope" <nwa482 at comcast.net>
Cc: Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <AA158156-4A7B-4DF2-90DB-58DAB480D0BD at dof3.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed



the macovich auction---where there was always staff to accommodate??
immediate payment & property pick-up---is returning to tucson next year.



On Feb 8, 2007, at 3:54 PM, Jim Strope wrote:

> I did NOT volunteer to offer my services for $100- to be your check??
> out
> person but I am sure you can find some intelligent college student??
> at the U
> of A that would be happy to do the service for a Hundred Bucks and??
> free
> beer.??(Beer to be consumed after the auction, of course).
>
>
> Jim Strope
> 421 Fourth Street
> Glen Dale, WV??26038
>
> http://www.catchafallingstar.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael L Blood" <mlblood at cox.net>
> To: "Jim Strope" <nwa482 at comcast.net>; "Meteorite List"
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 3:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang
>
>
>
>> Hi All,
>>????????Just got back from the big one.
>>????????Haven't come close to reading all my 473 emails, but I am more
>> convinced than ever that the lack of an additional check out person
>> at my auction is, indeed, a situation in need of correcting. My plan
>> for this year fell through at the last minute but I am now more
>> determined than ever to correct this problem once and for all.
>>????????Imagine my delight in hearing Jim Strope is willing to
>> perform that duty for only $100! Yippie! You're hired, Jim!
>> Please, everyone, let Jim know how grateful you are for being
>> willing to take care of this for us all. It will make the final buy
>> outs go twice as quickly, as well.
>>????????I also read that people are increasingly wanting auction??
>> prices
>> listed and even show dealers are chiming in in favor of this (at??
>> least
>> in one instance - haven't been able to read all posts, as mentioned -
>> and I do see that as another appropriate list topic) and I am,??
>> therefore,
>> reconsidering this, as my major issue in the past has been regarding
>> the feelings of the show dealers on this issue. I will make a??
>> decision
>> in the next day or two and, if in favor of posting prices, will do so
>> via the on-line catalog. I am currently leaning in favor of doing so,
>> but if I do, the list will remain posted for like 30 days, not all??
>> year.
>> I would like to hear PRIVATELY from any and all dealers on this
>> issue in the next 24 hrs. Please contact me directly via email with
>> "POSTING AUCTION PRICES" in the subject box so that I read
>> your opinion immediately. While I am not stating I will automatically
>> go with the majority opinion on this, it will be the major??
>> determining
>> factor in making up my mind on this particular issue - and there is
>> no need for this particular topic to be bantered about on the list.
>>????????????????????????????????????----------------------------
>>????????As for all other details (timing of sellers being paid,??
>> buyers'
>> credit card processing, absentee bidders being notified, etc) will be
>> handled one on one,??as per announcements prior to the auction - not
>> via the Meteorite List newsletter where these are not appropriate
>> topics.
>>????????Best wishes to all, Michael
>> (PS: My name is not "Blood," it is Michael Blood. If you do not??
>> choose
>> to use my first name it is then appropriate to place "Mr." in??
>> front of
>> my family name. We are not raw recruits in the military nor High
>> School jerks - though some times I wonder about the latter)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> on 2/8/07 8:41 AM, Jim Strope at nwa482 at comcast.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Obviously, a lack of staff results in less than optimum customer??
>>> service.
>>> Perhaps spending an extra $100- to hire someone to check out??
>>> bidders who
>>> want to leave would have a positive impact on the auction results??
>>> as a
>>> whole.??I personally know of at least two collectors who refused to
>>> attend
>>> an auction because of lack of customer service.??I also??
>>> personally know
>>> of
>>> one collector who left without paying because he got tired of??
>>> waiting.
>>>
>>> Hopefully, next year will be a more pleasant experience.
>>>
>>> Jim Strope
>>> 421 Fourth Street
>>> Glen Dale, WV??26038
>>>
>>> http://www.catchafallingstar.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Moni Waiblinger-Seabridge" <moni2555 at hotmail.com>
>>> To: <nwa482 at comcast.net>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 11:31 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Jim and All,
>>>>
>>>> I also go to an auction and it is the same as you describe.
>>>> I think if you have to wait until all the auction is done, it is??
>>>> simply
>>>> because there isn't enough staff.
>>>> At the auction I attend, there is two auctioneers that take??
>>>> turns and
>>>> then
>>>> about three people helping with showing, putting the items on??
>>>> the back
>>>> table and as you wrote, getting the items and handing them to??
>>>> the winner
>>>> after his purchase.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> With best regards,
>>>>>
>>>> Moni
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> From: "Jim Strope" <nwa482 at comcast.net>
>>>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang
>>>>> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 10:52:15 -0500
>>>>>
>>>>> While I agree with you in principle for big professional auction
>>>>> houses,
>>>>> you
>>>>> need to attend an auction in Denver or Tucson before reserving
>>>>> judgement.
>>>>> Some of them are very informal and not like a normal auction??
>>>>> situation.
>>>>>
>>>>> In at least one auction that I attended, the procecure is unlike a
>>>>> normal
>>>>> auction in such a way that tends to depresses the prices in my??
>>>>> opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, in a normal auction if I buy item number 10 out of??
>>>>> 200
>>>>> items
>>>>> offered and
>>>>> want to go home, then I just check out, pay and go home.??At at??
>>>>> least
>>>>> one
>>>>> Tucson auction that I attended,
>>>>> I would have to wait until the end of the auction to pay and??
>>>>> then pay
>>>>> in
>>>>> bidder number order.??So instead of going home at 8:00 when I??
>>>>> am done
>>>>> buying
>>>>> I have to wait until until all bidding on all items is??
>>>>> completed before
>>>>> I
>>>>> can go home which could be well after midnight.??This makes it??
>>>>> so that
>>>>> people don't tend to bid unless they REALLY, REALLY want the??
>>>>> item.??So
>>>>> prices are certainly
>>>>> not representative to prices much may have been realized in one??
>>>>> of the
>>>>> big
>>>>> auction houses.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just my two cents...........
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim Strope
>>>>> 421 Fourth Street
>>>>> Glen Dale, WV??26038
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.catchafallingstar.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> Valentine's Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN??
>>>> Shopping
>>>> http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?
>>>> ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tcode
>>>> =wlmtagline
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>> --
>> It is difficult to get a man to understand something if his
>> salary depends on him not understanding it.
>>??- Upton Sinclair
>> --
>> What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know.
>> It is what we know for sure that just ain't so.
>>?? - Josh Billings (but oft credited to??Mark Twain)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 14:15:33 -0700
From: JKGwilliam <h3chondrite at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fraud or Stolen meteorites in Tucson ???
To: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at tampabay.rr.com>,????"Peter Marmet"
????<p.marmet at mysunrise.ch>,<meteoriteguy at yahoo.com>
Cc: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20070208141058.01d1a028 at pop.west.cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

I agree with you whole-heatedly, Greg.??If, there is any fraud going on in
this situation I think it is imperative that it be brought to light.??Not
everyone likes to look at dirty laundry, but circumstances like this can
affect a great number of people.

Best,

John

At 08:24 PM 2/7/2007, Greg Hupe wrote:
>Hello Peter, Mike and List Members,
>
>In light of what has been said publicly and privately regarding the
"stolen"
>meteorites and Allan and Iris Lang's meteorite auction, lets examine this
>very carefully.
>
>Mike Farmer earlier today announced that the three meteorites which Achim
>Karl bid on and won at the live Lang auction on Saturday, February 3rd were
>stolen. Mike did this in order to help the Lang's and Achim so we, as a
>community, could try to find the described meteorite specimens and the
>"culprits" who perpetrated the "theft". The Monday after the auction (two
>days ago), Achim went to pay for and take possession of the three lots he
>won and was told in front of several well known and respected List and IMCA
>Member witnesses by Allan and Iris Lang that the three auctions he won were
>stolen. These auctions were; Bjurbole Lot #6 14.89 grams with old museum
>labels, Gorlovka Lot # 19??2.79 grams with old museum labels and Luotolax
>Lot # 34 3.2 grams.
>
>Peter Marmet then posted to the List an email he received from Iris Lang on
>Monday (see below) that he won four auctions. Two of these listed are the
>very same auction specimens that Achim was told the same day in front of
the
>witnesses were "stolen". I was told the third "stolen" specimen was sold to
>another very well respected collector for more than twice the hammer price
>it "sold" for at the live auction. How can they be stolen and then re-sold
>on the same day??
>
>To clear up any rumors or otherwise, I think it is in the best interest of
>the entire meteorite collecting community to know the final hammer price of
>the three "stolen" lots Achim won. Since this was a live auction similar to
>Michael Blood's, all who attended would know of any absentee bidding and
the
>final hammer price whether the bidder was there in person or an absentee
>bidder.
>
>I think it would also be a good idea for Peter and the other winner to
speak
>up here in public because it sounds to me like they have been unknowingly
>taken advantage of and should announce any wrong doing. This is no time to
>be quiet by what looks like a disgusting abuse of trust and a gross display
>of greed!
>
>Greg
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Peter Marmet" <p.marmet at mysunrise.ch>
>To: "Meteoritenliste" <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 5:35 PM
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stolen meteorites in Tucson ???
>
>
> > WHAT???
> >
> > This is the e-mail that I got from Iris Lang on Monday:
> >
> >
> > rockman at twcny.rr.com wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Original Message:
> >> Dear Peter Marmet,
> >>
> >> You won the following bids at the Tucson auction:
> >>
> >> Lot # 6??Bjurbole??14.89 grams?? for $....
> >>
> >> Lot # 34 Luotolax??3.2 grams for??$....
> >>
> >> Lot # 38 Mighei??0.69 grams for $....
> >>
> >> Lot # 52 Quenggouk??2.9 grams??for $....
> >>
> >> Allan will be home within a week.??Please e-mail him to make
> >> arrangments
> >> for payment.
> >> You can pay by credit card or check.??Please add shipping and
> >> handling cost.
> >>
> >>
> >> Best regards
> >>
> >> Iris Lang
> >> http://www.nyrockman.com
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael Farmer wrote:
> >
> >> I want to inform the list about 3 stolen meteorite
> >> from the Al Lang Auction in Tucson.
> >> Achim Karl was the high bidder on 3 meteorites which
> >> were stolen from the display cases just after the
> >> auction. They are:
> >> Bjurbole, Lot #6 14.89 grams with old museum labels.
> >> Gorlovka, Lot # 19??2.79 grams with old museum labels.
> >> and Luotolax, Lot # 34. 3.2 grams.
> >>
> >> These are rare items which the photos can be seen on
> >> Al Langs website
> >> www.nyrockman.com/tucson-auction-2007.htm
> >>
> >>
> >> Anyone seeing these pieces for sale or who has any
> >> inoformation can contact myself or Achim Karl (the
> >> rightful owner) at achimkarl at aol.com
> >>
> >> Many other meteorites were also stolen in Tucson,
> >> Mohammed again lost around 50-60 kilos of complete
> >> stones, and Karl Sprich from South Africa lost many
> >> kilos of Gibeon slices and a large Campo del Cielo
> >> with a natural hole.
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
>
>
>______________________________________________
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 14:50:24 -0700
From: JKGwilliam <h3chondrite at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lang proxy bid?
To: Mike Bandli
????<fuzzfoot at comcast.net>,<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.0.20070208143939.01d2dae8 at pop.west.cox.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

Mike and List,
Since I don't have a copy of the Lang's "Auction Terms" available to me,
I'll have to assume that your statement is correct.??If that is the case,
and there was no other bid after Peter Marmet's bid of $450, then you
should have paid $460, not $500.??You should also receive a refund for the
difference ( $40 ) but I don't think you should simply "request" it.??In
this situation I think you should "demand" a refund and do so very loudly.
Absentee bidding is one more way that bidders in an auction can be
defrauded.??I'm starting to wonder if there are more "fleeced sheep" out
there.

Best,

John

At 11:46 AM 2/8/2007, Mike Bandli wrote:
>First, let me state that I am not trying to throw more coal on this
>fire... I have a question for the people at the auction. I purchased Lixna
>Lot 70 for $500. I know for fact that the other bidder was absentee bidder
>Peter Marmet and his max bid was $450.
>
>In Lang's auction terms it states: "The auctioneer will act as proxy for
>absentee bidders. Your bids will be increased only a needed to surpass the
>next-highest bid or the reserve up to your maximum stated amount. For
>example: The reserve on Lot XX is $1,000. You are bidder #1 and have
>placed an absentee bid in the amount of $2,000. Bidder #2 has entered a
>maximum bid of $1,100. As your proxy, the auctioneer will enter a bid of
>$1,125 (only increasing the amount as required to best the next-highest
>bid), and you become the high bidder."
>
>For bid increments it states: "Up to $999, bidding will increase in $10
>increments."
>
>So if the next highest bid was $450 and my bid was $500... I should have
>paid $460 correct? I didn't even think about it at the time because I was
>so happy to win this piece.
>
>Is this much to do about nothing and should I just be happy I got it? Or
>should I request a $40 refund? Not sure what to do...
>
>Mike
>______________________________________________
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 13:00:03 -0900
From: Eric Twelker <twelker at alaska.net>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] a few other auction surprises
To: Zelimir Gabelica <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>,????Meteorite Mailing List
????<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <C1F0CF53.2CC81%twelker at alaska.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi List

????Thank you Mike for posting the prices.??Zelimir's response highlights
the reason why this information should be public.??Absentee bidders and
absentee sellers are at the mercy of the auctioneer and if the auctioneer is
not honest--or made an honest mistake--then the absentee parties can't know.
I don't agree with Greg that "everyone knows" prices.??I am an absentee
seller in the Blood auction and I don't have a clue what happened.??I trust
Michael, so I am not worried--but there is more.

????There is a business reason that runs to the advantage of the auctioneer
to keep the prices secret.??If consigners don't realize that items sell for
a fraction of normal prices, then they will be more likely to consign items
to the next auction.??If they think they will get very little, they won't.

????For the protection of buyers and sellers, the prices should be posted.

????Eric Twelker


> Hi Mike, list,
>
> Mike's reported hammer prices will probably shed more shadow than light on
> that famous auction.
>
> While we are at trying to clear all points, here are some of my own
> amazements.
>
> I have put 11 absentee bids and four of them turned to be above the hammer
> prices. These are:
>
> Item????????????hammer ($)??????my bid ($)
>
> 19 Gorlovka???? 160 (Achim)???? 210
> 35 Marilia??????610???????????? 710
> 52 Quenggouk????180???????????? 260
> 60 Vernon Co????266???????????? 260
>
> 1) Shouldn't have I been the winner or .... ??? (badly missing something!)
>
> 2) For other 6 items, my bids were logically lower than hammers. This is
OK
> (at least on my side)
>
> 3) But for the last item, here is the other surprise.
> Iris Lang sent me the same letter as to Peter, about item N? 29, Khohar.
> Here it is
>
> Dear Zelimir Gabelica,
> You won Lot # 29 Khohar for $495
> Allan will be home within a week. Please contact him by e-mail to make
> arrangment for payment. You can pay by check or credit card. Please add
> shipping and handling cost.
> Best regards
> Iris Lang
>
> Now Mike reports that this item was sold to Achim in room for $ 495 (which
> is exactly my bid).
> If Mike is corect, something really wrong here. Who is the winner ?
> I dare hoping that Mike mixed the two winers but his statement seems so
> strong. Any thoughts?
>
> Unless I missed many rules or facts (not excluded), things are far from
> being clear.
> Are there other cases ?
>
> Best,
>
> Zelimir
>
>
>
>
> A 09:55 08/02/2007 -0800, Michael Farmer a ?crit :
>> Mike and everyone else, I do not want to be in the
>> middle of this. I am running a business at the show. I
>> did Al and Achim a favor (I thought) by reporting
>> stolen pieces. I did not know the firestorm that would
>> follow. I have had at least 50 requests for prices
>> from 50 people, I don't have time to deal with these
>> emails, so by taking the last 30 minutes to posts the
>> hammer prices should release me from any more emails
>> to me. Others in the room can compare prices they
>> wrote down. the rest is between the interested parties
>> and the Langs.
>> Michael Farmer
>> This should end my involvement in the dispute I hope.
>> Perhaps next year, people could just come to my room,
>> and pay the fixed price listed, it would be less
>> painfull!
>>
>> Michael Farmer
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Mike Fowler <mqfowler at mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Mike Farmer,
>>>
>>> This so much really needed to be done.??Thanks for
>>> stepping up to the
>>> plate, even though you may receive vocal criticism
>>> from some.??I'm
>>> sure those that are appreciative will out number
>>> those who oppose by
>>> at least 10 to one, even if they aren't so vocal.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Mike Fowler
>>>
>>>
>>>> Mike Farmer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am going to make this as short as I can, I am
>>> still
>>>> selling in my room in Tucson.
>>>> I will list lot # Meteorite name and hammer sale
>>>> price.
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> Prof. Zelimir Gabelica
> Universit? de Haute Alsace
> ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC,
> 3, Rue A. Werner,
> F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France
> Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94
> Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15
>
> ______________________________________________
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 15:58:51 -0600
From: "Bob Evans" <bobe5531 at comcast.net>
Subject: [meteorite-list]??Lang Auction
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <001001c74bcc$51848780$6400a8c0 at yourae066c3a9b>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
????reply-type=original

Geoff wrote :
"Dear Listees:

I thought it might be helpful to mention that Allan and Iris Lang are
on their way home from the 2007 Tucson show, and probably cannot to
reply to posts regarding the auction at this time.

Since Allan has been a respected buyer and seller of meteorites for
more than thirty years, it might be a good idea for anyone with a
legitimate question about the auction to give him the benefit of the
doubt and contact him directly rather than speculating on the M-List. "

Absolutely Geoff,

Anybody at the auction knew about the confusion the auctioneers had with the

absentee bids. If you weren't at the auction then you shouldn't suspect or
suggest there was any foul play ( Leave stuff like that for the idiot
illusionist from Austin, Texas ).
Doesn't make much sense either. The Langs did tremendously well with their
auction, Does it make any sense that they would lie about a theft to make a
few hundred bucks? No, it doesnt.
I have nothing but empathy for the Langs??regarding this matter.
If you weren't at the auction then you really have no business making any
accusations.

Bob




------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 14:12:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Farmer <meteoriteguy at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lang Auction
To: Bob Evans <bobe5531 at comcast.net>,
????meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID: <395570.30986.qm at web33101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Ummmm, Bob, unless you are a complete retard, then
these emails are as telling as it gets. Give me a
break already. The simple fact that the pieces were
reported as "stolen" and denied to the rightful owner
who was the high bidder in the room and the hammer
price closed on his last bid, then sold to other
people for more money, then today reported as "found".
If you need help understanding this, then you are
dumber than I thought. The police were involved, as
well as the show owner at the Westward Look. There are
many things going on with other people that are not
public.
How dare you tell people who placed their bids as
absentee bidders to mind their own business! That is
above the pale. They placed their bids, which are
binding contracts, and it seems that virtually all of
them were either screwed out of their pieces, or
overcharged. What more can be said.
Mike Farmer
--- Bob Evans <bobe5531 at comcast.net> wrote:

> Geoff wrote :
> "Dear Listees:
>
> I thought it might be helpful to mention that Allan
> and Iris Lang are
> on their way home from the 2007 Tucson show, and
> probably cannot to
> reply to posts regarding the auction at this time.
>
> Since Allan has been a respected buyer and seller of
> meteorites for
> more than thirty years, it might be a good idea for
> anyone with a
> legitimate question about the auction to give him
> the benefit of the
> doubt and contact him directly rather than
> speculating on the M-List. "
>
> Absolutely Geoff,
>
> Anybody at the auction knew about the confusion the
> auctioneers had with the
> absentee bids. If you weren't at the auction then
> you shouldn't suspect or
> suggest there was any foul play ( Leave stuff like
> that for the idiot
> illusionist from Austin, Texas ).
> Doesn't make much sense either. The Langs did
> tremendously well with their
> auction, Does it make any sense that they would lie
> about a theft to make a
> few hundred bucks? No, it doesnt.
> I have nothing but empathy for the Langs??regarding
> this matter.
> If you weren't at the auction then you really have
> no business making any
> accusations.
>
> Bob
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 17:18:06 -0500
From: David Weir <dgweir at earthlink.net>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lang Auction
To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <45CBA19E.4090404 at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Finally, a sensible voice amid the tantrum:

> Dear Listees:
>
> I thought it might be helpful to mention that Allan and Iris Lang are
> on their way home from the 2007 Tucson show, and probably cannot to
> reply to posts regarding the auction at this time.
>
> Since Allan has been a respected buyer and seller of meteorites for
> more than thirty years, it might be a good idea for anyone with a
> legitimate question about the auction to give him the benefit of the
> doubt and contact him directly rather than speculating on the M-List.
>
>
> Geoff N.
> www.aerolite.org


David





------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 22:32:22 -0000
From: "Jose Campos" <josecamposcomet at netcabo.pt>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Update on Walter
To: "Walter Branch" <waltbranch at bellsouth.net>,????"Meteorite List"
????<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <019701c74bd1$025d3760$a7eb16d5 at paular2wuci4vh>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
????reply-type=original

Hi Sabrina,
We are glad to hear such good news and we wish Walter a good, speedy
recovery.
Our thoughts and prayers are with you.
Jos? and Charmaine Campos
Portugal

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Branch" <waltbranch at bellsouth.net>
To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 1:48 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Update on Walter


> Hello Everyone,
>
> First, let me thank you for all of the e-mails.??I have been printing them
> out so that Walter can see them when he is better.??I just returned from
> the
> hospital.??Walter had a tracheotomy today.??He is still on the ventilator
> so
> he will not be able to talk but at least he will be able to form words
> better so maybe I can understand him easier.??His kidney functioning is
> just
> a tad better than yesterday. For those of you who know the terms, his
> creatnine level went from 3.5 to 2.9.??We want it to be 1.5 or lower.??The
> chest tube was removed yesterday and the cervical collar was removed this
> morning.??He is able to move better now.??He is still very sedated due to
> agitation and pain.??On Monday, I did get to talk to him and he could nod
> "yes" and "no".??I told him that I was e-mailing all of you and he nodded
> that he understood.??As he gets better I am sure he will tell me or
> indicate
> what I should tell you but for now I just wanted him to know how many
> people
> are thinking and praying for him.
>
> Rebekah went to the pediatrician yesterday and got a clean bill of health.
> She goes to the orthopedic surgeon tomorrow to check the pelvic fracture.
> She is moving around so well she tires herself out before she realizes.
>
> Please continue to keep us in your thoughts and prayers.??I know that is
> what is making the difference in Walter's still being alive and in his
> recovery.
>
> Thank you for all that you have done!
> Sabrina Branch
> ________________________
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 16:38:32 -0600
From: Mike Fowler <mqfowler at mac.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list]??a few other auction surprises
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Cc: Mike Fowler <mqfowler at mac.com>
Message-ID: <0EB8EB86-C598-4024-98B0-AE99B6950A51 at mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

> There is a business reason that runs to the advantage of the??
> auctioneer
> to keep the prices secret. If consigners don't realize that items??
> sell for
> a fraction of normal prices, then they will be more likely to??
> consign items
> to the next auction. If they think they will get very little, they??
> won't.
>
> For the protection of buyers and sellers, the prices should be posted.
>
> Eric Twelker


If realized auction prices are abnormally low AND THEY ARE??
PUBLICIZED, then next year there will be fewer consigners, and
MANY MORE BUYERS HOPING FOR A BARGAIN.

As a result of the prices being publicized, a more normal result??
should be obtained the following year.

I rest my case.

Mike Fowler

Chicago



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 16:44:03 -0600
From: "Bob Evans" <bobe5531 at comcast.net>
Subject: [meteorite-list]??Lang Auction
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <002601c74bd2$a51ff9a0$6400a8c0 at yourae066c3a9b>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
????reply-type=original

Sorry Mike,
Im just not inclined to believe every single word I read on this list.
FYI - On Sat 2/3/07 I was in one dealers room and asked him to see a
individual of Dhofar 007 that was in his locked case.
When I asked him, he said surprisingly " Oh that's where it went. I thought
that had been stolen."
Excuse me for giving the Langs the benefit of doubt.

Bob



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 23:44:33 +0100
From: Peter Marmet <p.marmet at mysunrise.ch>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] a few other auction surprises
To: Zelimir Gabelica <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
Cc: Meteoritenliste <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <04C832DB-CEFA-4425-9A82-A83FFDB79CA4 at mysunrise.ch>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed

Hello Zelimir,

the same here!

Millbillillie went for 1100.00 USD, our maximum bid: 1300.00 USD!!!

Sylacauga went for 1525.00 USD, our maximum bid: 2250.00 USD!!!!!!

Tenham went for 800.00 USD, our maximum bid: 1200.00 USD!!!

I made this bids for a friend of mine.
We both are very frustrated!

Cheers,
Peter


Zelimir Gabelica??wrote:

> Hi Mike, list,
>
> Mike's reported hammer prices will probably shed more shadow than??
> light on
> that famous auction.
>
> While we are at trying to clear all points, here are some of my own??
> amazements.
>
> I have put 11 absentee bids and four of them turned to be above the??
> hammer
> prices. These are:
>
> Item????????????hammer ($)??????my bid ($)
>
> 19 Gorlovka???? 160 (Achim)???? 210
> 35 Marilia??????610???????????? 710
> 52 Quenggouk????180???????????? 260
> 60 Vernon Co????266???????????? 260
>
> 1) Shouldn't have I been the winner or .... ??? (badly missing??
> something!)
>
> 2) For other 6 items, my bids were logically lower than hammers.??
> This is OK
> (at least on my side)
>
> 3) But for the last item, here is the other surprise.
> Iris Lang sent me the same letter as to Peter, about item N? 29,??
> Khohar.
> Here it is
>
> Dear Zelimir Gabelica,
> You won Lot # 29 Khohar for $495
> Allan will be home within a week. Please contact him by e-mail to make
> arrangment for payment. You can pay by check or credit card. Please??
> add
> shipping and handling cost.
> Best regards
> Iris Lang
>
> Now Mike reports that this item was sold to Achim in room for $ 495??
> (which
> is exactly my bid).
> If Mike is corect, something really wrong here. Who is the winner ?
> I dare hoping that Mike mixed the two winers but his statement??
> seems so
> strong. Any thoughts?
>
> Unless I missed many rules or facts (not excluded), things are far??
> from
> being clear.
> Are there other cases ?
>
> Best,
>
> Zelimir
>
>
>
>
> A 09:55 08/02/2007 -0800, Michael Farmer a ?crit :
>
>> Mike and everyone else, I do not want to be in the
>> middle of this. I am running a business at the show. I
>> did Al and Achim a favor (I thought) by reporting
>> stolen pieces. I did not know the firestorm that would
>> follow. I have had at least 50 requests for prices
>> from 50 people, I don't have time to deal with these
>> emails, so by taking the last 30 minutes to posts the
>> hammer prices should release me from any more emails
>> to me. Others in the room can compare prices they
>> wrote down. the rest is between the interested parties
>> and the Langs.
>> Michael Farmer
>> This should end my involvement in the dispute I hope.
>> Perhaps next year, people could just come to my room,
>> and pay the fixed price listed, it would be less
>> painfull!
>>
>> Michael Farmer
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Mike Fowler <mqfowler at mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Mike Farmer,
>>>
>>> This so much really needed to be done.??Thanks for
>>> stepping up to the
>>> plate, even though you may receive vocal criticism
>>> from some.??I'm
>>> sure those that are appreciative will out number
>>> those who oppose by
>>> at least 10 to one, even if they aren't so vocal.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Mike Fowler
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Mike Farmer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am going to make this as short as I can, I am
>>>>
>>> still
>>>
>>>> selling in my room in Tucson.
>>>> I will list lot # Meteorite name and hammer sale
>>>> price.
>>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>
>>>
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
> Prof. Zelimir Gabelica
> Universit? de Haute Alsace
> ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC,
> 3, Rue A. Werner,
> F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France
> Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94
> Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15
>
> ______________________________________________
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 20:41:13 -0500 (EST)
From: "Gary K. Foote" <gary at webbers.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] French Meteorite Hunters Article
To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID:
????<26893.65.175.176.99.1170985273.squirrel at webmail4.pair.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1

With the permission of Frederic Beroud I have included his article on his
first trip to Reg Acfer on a meteorite hunting trip.??This article was
first published in Meteorite Magazine in 2001.??Thank you Frederic!

http://www.meteorite-dealers.com/frenchhuntersontrack.html

Gary


------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


End of Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 39, Issue 30
**********************************************


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Received on Sat 10 Feb 2007 08:46:39 PM PST