[meteorite-list] ill need more

From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 08:12:18 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <20070225161218.238.qmail_at_web36914.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Sterling -

To state the obvisous, fire was the primary way of
cooking food and heating in those days, and accounts
of fires must be read in that light.

good hunting,
E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas

--- "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

> Hi, Michael, Jeffrey, List
>
> Michael, as you well know, if the stone is
> not preserved, conserved, abducted by a museum,
> university, or government agency, examined by
> a geologist, mineralogist, scholar, savant,
> published,
> mentioned, noted, or abstracted, and then, in more
> scientific times, cut, sectioned, analyzed, poked in
> the noble gases and asked to cough --- it does not
> exist.
>
> There is no "meteorite" named ZVEZVAN, no
> entries in the Catalogue, no specimens, no slices,
> no nothing. Just an article in the NYTimes and one
> dead wedding guest. Not much, unless the wedding
> guest mattered to you. Doesn't mean it didn't
> happen.
> What? Slow news day in Zvezvan?
>
> There are innumerable historical accounts of
> "fabulous" events for which at the time there was
> no "rational" explanation that are perfectly and
> consistently what would be expected from
> a meteorite that are presently blythely dismissed
> as being "without proof."
>
> There is a well-known case of a Franciscan monk
> of Milan being killed by a meteorite striking him in
> the
> leg (17th century). This is a much disputed account
> despite a large number of witness and perfectly
> consistent
> details. It was called a "celestial stoning," the
> notion of
> meteorites being unknown at the time, and was widely
> reported and well attested, but is widely regarded
> by the
> "experts" of today as the report of the ignorant and
> the credulous.
>
> Then, in 1985, a historian quite accidentally
> discovered
> a lengthy account written by the physician who
> attempted
> to save the monk's life (and failed). The "autopsy
> report"
> is clear: the man's thigh was punctured side-to-side
> by a
> blocky piece of heavy dark stone larger than a
> bullet; the
> wound would have been survivable except that the
> "stone"
> severed the femoral artery and the victim bled out.
>
> Those 17th century guys just didn't realize that
> without
> a video tape of the whole thing, nobody was ever
> going to
> believe them! No guest shot on Oprah for them...
> But,
> frankly, to dismiss entirely these accounts for
> which there
> is no inherent clause for dismissal as "the report
> of the
> ignorant and the credulous" is... What's the word?
> Oh,
> yes: ignorant and credulous. But I'm just
> re-iterating in a
> minor way the discussion in Chap. 13 of Lewis book.
> Go read that, an excellent book on meteorites.
>
> Jeffrey, if you have archival access to the NYT,
> you
> might try for March 11, 1897 (1:4) account of a
> meteorite
> whose fragments pierced walls, killed one horse,
> injured
> another, and knocked out cold a man named David
> Leisure, in New Martinsville, West Virginia,
> apparently
> an explosive air-burst. (That's all I have, and that
> may
> have been all that was in the Times.)
>
> As for the "glowing hot" references in such
> accounts,
> that is the result of one of the great fallacies of
> human
> perception and need not invalidate an account.
> Ascribing
> heat to meteorites is akin to "seeing" lightening as
> red.
>
> Before 1800, in the many hundreds of
> descriptions
> of lightening to be found in the literatures of
> every culture
> on the planet, lightening is described as being red
> in color.
> I accumulated 700 references to the color of
> lightening
> prior to the late 18th century and found only one
> reference
> to "blue" lightening; ALL others were red. Since the
> early
> 19th century, lightening is always described as
> "blue,
> blue-white, bluish white." Why? Better eyesight
> nowadays?
>
> No. Before 1800, everyone "knew" lightening was
> "fire"
> from heaven, and "fire" is red. Now, everyone
> "knows"
> that lightening is electrical, a gigantic
> atmospheric spark,
> and "electricity" is "blue" (or blue-white). Any
> (and every)
> fool knows that. Human beings DO NOT SEE what's in
> front of them; they DO SEE what they "know" to be
> true.
> They "know" meteorites are fiery objects, so they're
> "hot."
> Reality has nothing to do with it.
>
> A great many genuine in-the-book historical
> falls come
> with witness descriptions of "hot rocks." Whether
> there
> are ever any real "hot rocks" is impossible to
> determine
> because they're going to be reported as hot whether
> they
> were or not.
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael L Blood" <mlblood at cox.net>
> To: "Jeffrey Shallit"
> <elvis at graceland.math.uwaterloo.ca>; "Meteorite
> List"
> <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>;
> <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: <shallit at graceland.math.uwaterloo.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 7:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ill need more
>
>
> Hi Jeffrey,
> Thanks!
> However, I was wondering what the NAME of
> this meteorite is....
> "Zvezvan" is not listed in Meteorites A to Z.
> Michael
>
>
> on 2/24/07 5:26 PM, Jeffrey Shallit at
> elvis at graceland.math.uwaterloo.ca
> wrote:
>
> > Ask and ye shall receive:
> >
> > "Little thing like a meteor fails to discourage
> bride"
> > New York Times
> > December 8 1929
> > p. E1
> >
> > Special correspondence of the New York Times
> >
> > Belgrade, Nov. 20. - The heavens "blessed" a bride
> in unwonted
> > and unwelcome form in the village of Zvezvan
> today. As the wedding
> > party was nearing the church a meteor fell into
> one of the carriages
> > immediately in front of that in which the bride
> was seated.
> >
> > One of the wedding guests, a man, was killed, the
> woman sitting
> > opposite him was badly injured and the bride
> fainted. The crowd
> > scattered in panic, but after a brief delay the
> marriage was
> > duly solemnized.
> >
> > The meteor, which was glowing hot, measured forty
> centimeters in
> > diameter.
> >
>
> --
> You can complain because roses have thorns, or you
> can rejoice
> because thorns have roses.
> - Ziggy - in a comic strip by Tom Wilson
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
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>
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>



 
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Received on Sun 25 Feb 2007 11:12:18 AM PST