[meteorite-list] Two other accounts of the Holocene start impacts

From: Bill <glixard_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 22:46:55 -0800
Message-ID: <BCA4BEB11F0.00000461glixard_at_inbox.com>

Bleh, put AD in your subject line.

Bill


> -----Original Message-----
> From: epgrondine at yahoo.com
> Sent: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 13:45:07 -0700 (PDT)
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Two other accounts of the Holocene start
> impacts
>
> Hi all -
>
> My thanks to those who ordered their personally signed
> copies of "Man and Impact in the Americas" during my
> recent "discussions" with Paul and Darren. Your copies
> should be arriving soon.
>
> During those "discussions" I previously shared with
> the list a Lenape account of the Holocene Start
> Impacts, and now I want to share two Iroquoian
> accounts of Holocene start impacts, and some comments
> on what they perhaps tell us about the new research.
>
> A MOHAWK ACCOUNT OF THE END OF THE ICE AGE,
> SHORTLY BEFORE Ca. 8,350 BCE
>
> The following passage is adapted from a Mohawk version
> of the creation myth given by Seth Newhouse to J.N.B.
> Hewitt.
>
> "It came to pass that the Good Mind, as he traveled
> from place to place, after a while went along the
> shore of the lake (Lake Ontario). There, not far away,
> he saw the Bad Mind making for himself a bridge of ice
> across the lake, a bridge which already extended far
> out on the water.
>
> "Thereupon the Good Mind went to the place where the
> Bad Mind was working, and when he arrived there, he
> said: "Tawi'skaron, what is this that you are doing
> for yourself?" The Bad Mind replied, saying: "I am
> making a pathway for myself." And then, pointing in
> the direction toward which he was building the bridge,
> he added: "In that direction there is a land where
> dwell great animals of fierce dispositions. As soon as
> I complete my pathway to that other land, thereafter
> they will habitually come over. Along this pathway
> they will be in the habit of coming across the lake to
> eat the flesh of human beings who are about to dwell
> on the earth."
>
> "So then the Good Mind said to the Bad Mind: "You
> should stop the work which you are doing. Surely the
> intention of your mind is not good." The Bad Mind
> replied, saying: "I will not cease from what I am
> doing, for, of course, it is good that these great
> animals shall be in the habit of coming here to eat
> the flesh of human beings who will dwell here."
>
> "So of course the Bad Mind did not obey and cease from
> building the bridge for himself, and thereupon the
> Good Mind turned back and reached dry land. Now along
> the shore of the sea grew shrubs, and he saw a bird
> sitting on a limb of one. The bird belonged to the
> class of birds which we call the bluebirds. And the
> Good Mind then said to this Bluebird: "You shall kill
> a cricket. You shall remove one hind leg from it, and
> you shall hold it in your mouth, and you shall go
> there to the very place where the Bad Mind is working.
> You shall land very near to the place where he is
> working, and you shall cry out."
>
> "And the Bluebird replied, saying, "Yo". Thereupon
> the Bluebird truly did seek for a cricket, and after a
> while it found one, and it killed it, too. Then it
> pulled out one of the cricket's hind legs and put it
> into its mouth to hold, and then it flew, winging its
> way to the place where the Bad Mind was at work making
> his ice bridge.
>
> "There it landed, near to him at his task. And of
> course it then shouted, "Kwe', kwe', kwe', kwe',
> kwe'." At which the Bad Mind raised up his head and
> looked, and he saw the bluebird sitting there. He
> believed from what he saw that the bluebird held in
> its mouth the thigh of a man, and also that its mouth
> was wholly covered with blood.
>
> "It was then that the Bad Mind sprang up at once and
> fled. As fast as he ran the bridge of ice which he was
> making dissipated."
>
> COMMENT: What was this Bluebird with its mouth covered
> with blood, whose appearance caused the ice to melt?
> Was it a comet passing through space all too near to
> the Earth? Is there anything else that could account
> for such an "absurd" memory? Is there any other
> reason to account for the preservation of such a
> strange memory?
>
> A TUSCARORA ACCOUNT OF A HOLOCENE START IMPACT ON THE
> SAINT LAWRENCE RIVER
>
> The following passage has been adapted to modern usage
> from an account given by Tuscaroran Chief Elias
> Johnson.
>
> A Great Horned Serpent also next appeared on Lake
> Ontario who, by means of his poisonous breath, caused
> disease, and caused the death of many.
>
> At length the old women congregated, with one accord,
> and prayed to the Great Spirit that he would send
> their grandfather, the Thunder, who would get to their
> relief in this, their sore time of trouble, while at
> the same time burning tobacco as burned offerings. And
> so finally the monster was compelled to retire in the
> deeps of the lake by thunderbolts.
>
> Before this calamity was forgotten another happened. A
> blazing star fell into their fort, situated on the
> banks of the St. Lawrence, and destroyed the people.
> Such a phenomenon caused a great panic and
> consternation and dread, which they regarded as
> ominous of their entire destruction. Not long after
> this prediction of the blazing star it was verified.
>
> These tribes, who were held together by feeble ties,
> fell into dispute and wars among themselves, which
> were pursued through a long period, until they had
> utterly destroyed each other, and so reduced their
> numbers that the lands were again overrun with wild
> beasts.
>
> At this period there were six families who took refuge
> in a large cave in a mountain, where they dwelled for
> a long time. The men would come out occasionally to
> hunt for food. This great cave was situated at or near
> the falls of the Oswego River.
>
> The Holder of the Heavens then came and extricated
> these six families from the subterraneous bowels and
> confines of the mountain. The people always looked to
> this divine messenger, who had power to assume various
> shapes as emergency demanded, as the friend and patron
> of their nation.
>
> This company were a particular body, which called
> themselves of One Household. Of these there were six
> families, and they entered into an agreement to
> preserve the chain of alliance which should not be
> extinguished under any circumstance.
>
> COMMENT:
> The "great horned serpent" here is a "kahastenes", a
> comet. That's the way that they spoke of them, and the
> tobacco is a late insertion from contemporary
> (colonial era) ritual practice.
>
> Note the climate collapse by cometary dust load prior
> to the small impact remembered in this account.
>
> GENERAL COMMENTS
>
> Previously, I expressed my concern with the conundrum
> posed by the fact that the Lenape had survived what I
> had thought to be an impact mega-tsunami.
>
> I think that we can now just understand what the
> Lenape remembered as flooding from a very rapid melt,
> and the deposit which Hibben observed as being simply
> the result of that flooding.
>
> Going back over the other accounts, we find no mention
> of the deafness caused by extremely large impacts,
> aside from a mention of "thunder". Thus I think what
> we're looking at here is dust loading and multiple
> smaller impacts.
>
> Note also the strange behavior of the mega-fauna and
> their predators which appears in the accounts. Death
> by starvation of the mega-fauna would have led their
> predators (the monsters) to new game: people.
>
> Something happened to the North Pacific Current at the
> end of the last ice age, and a comet appeared at the
> same time.
>
> As work on this continues we'll find out the specific
> mechanism for this change, and determine if it was
> impact or dust load related, or simply a co-incidence.
>
> good hunting,
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
> for a signed copy, contact me off list
>
>
>
>
>
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Received on Mon 03 Sep 2007 02:46:55 AM PDT