[meteorite-list] A new market and its apocalyptic pilot

From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 23:38:35 -0500
Message-ID: <08dc01c7f81b$7282f920$a025e146_at_ATARIENGINE>

Thaddeus, EP, Listoids,


The List being quiet, let's open an old wound.
That's always fun.

Sir Mortimer Wheeler (famous archeologist) once said:
"Archaeology is not a science; it's a VENDETTA."

Paleoarchaeology of the Americas is 'way past vendetta.
Fidel is a hatchet man, fighting in a war, in the guise of
science. Actually, to call the field a war is understating
the case; it's much, much nastier than a war. "Religious"
conflicts usually are.


#1

Fidel
http://radiocarbon.library.arizona.edu/radiocarbon/GetFileServlet?file=file:///data1/pdf/Radiocarbon/Volume44/Number2/azu_radiocarbon_v44_n2_407_436_v.pdf&type=application/pdf
states:

"If the ocean surface suddenly became colder,
=> thus absorbing less atmospheric carbon, <=
the same process might account for the peculiar
14C increase that accompanies the YD onset."

Unfortunately, as anyone with the experience of having
left your cold soft drink set out and get warm is aware,
cold water holds MORE dissolved CO2 than warm water.
You could find innumerable references to this simple
physical fact in the literature of chemistry, physics, and
climatology for over a century-and-a-half, but all you have
to do is compare the statement to your direct perceptual
experience of reality like any sapient is supposed to do.

Or, THINK about what the Blank you're saying.

Or reading.



#2

In criticising the Monte Verde site, Fidel says:

"Recognizable debitage from lithic flaking -- a practically
universal marker of Stone Age human encampments --
seems, inexplicably, to be absent."

Hardly universal. Many sites have tools but are without
the traces of the manufacture of stone tools, and there
are many sites where nothing else but debitage is found
(quarries, "factories"), and sites where both are present.
It's a null datum.

Maybe, neolithic wives made the neolithic slobs they married
clean up all those sharp nasty flakes and toss them in the river
because the little ones were scratching up the bottoms of
their feet. Maybe, the Monte Verdeans had a factory site at
another location. Maybe, they had knappers in an efficient
division-of-labor arrangement and all the flakes are at the
as-yet-undiscovered knappers camp. Maybe, they traded for
most of their tools because they felt that they were more
productive using them than making them, just as most of
us buy our cars and computers rather than take the time
to build them our own ourselves. [Continue ad infinitum...]

My house is full of hundreds of wood artifacts, all skillfully
worked, with a few quite large ones, all in cherrywood, yet
there is, on the site and in its vicinty, a total absense of sawdust,
the remains of sawn trees, fragments of partially worked
wood, and no tools with which to work wood. Moreover,
a survey of the contemporaneous floral assemblage of the
area shews a total absence of large cherry tree stumps or living
trees. This house is clearly a spurious assemblage and not in
any way representative of the 70y BP era, as has been claimed
on the basis of confused and contradictory evidence and the
vague recollections of the present occupants.

Fiedelian logic triumphs.


#3 through #147

I could make a dozen or a hundred more examples of
this sort of thing, but why bother?



Sterling K. Webb
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A new market and its apocalyptic pilot


Hi Thaddeus

> After all, multiple impacts may have occurred.

Jesus, do you even bother to read my replies? It seems
likely to me that there were multiple impacts - which
ultimately will mean more samples to be sold.

> If only you could refrain from your smug,
> condescending assessments and understand that we
> don't assume we are right in science.

My hypothesis is that some people just want to pick a
fight. The data seems to prove this to be a good
working hypothesis.

Thaddeus, It would help if you bothered to read my
book before writing: please keep in mind that a good
number of the top dealers and experts here on the list
acquired copies of "Man and Impact in the Americas" in
Tucson or when it first came out, and that some of
them have even been able to wade through its pages and
pages of tiny type, despite its focus on impacts
instead of meteorites.

> Read "INITIAL HUMAN COLONIZATION OF THE AMERICAS: AN
> OVERVIEW OF THE ISSUES AND THE EVIDENCE" by Fiedel
> in PDF format:
>
http://radiocarbon.library.arizona.edu/radiocarbon/GetFileServlet?file=file:///data1/pdf/Radiocarbon/Volume44/Number2/azu_radiocarbon_v44_n2_407_436_v.pdf&type=application/pdf

Thanks, sounds like a good read.

There is no need to guess about the who and when of
the migrations to the Americas. The mitochondrial DNA
evidence is set out on page 35 of Man and Impact in
the Americas. In the next edition, I hope to have
additions for Savannah River DNA (Ocanachee, Yuchi);
certainly the material evidence for their crossing
will be set out in it. If the second edition is in
color, perhaps I'll even be able to include a copy of
the Cambridge world map of mitochodrial DNA
haplogroups.

> CLOVIS ASSEMBLAGES DID NOT COMPLETELY DIE OUT.

WHY ARE YOU SCREAMING?
Read my previous note at:

http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/ce010702.html
in particular the section entitled:
A DISCONTINUOUS DEVELOPMENT?

I can't comment on your transitions in western
lithics, not having examined them in detail. What can
be stated with certainty is that the mitochondrial DNA
evidence demonstrates beyond doubt that there were
many survivors of the holocene start impacts. How they
managed to do that is going to make a good story -
parts of it are already given in their own words in
"Man and Impact in the Americas (pages 39-44).

On my most recent trip west, I spent what time and
money I had visiting the observatories at Wupatki and
Casa Grande and meeting with some people.

> "Giant" and "tall" are two different words.

If you want to know about the "Adena", before you
write on them, read Man and Impact in the Americas,
pages 64 et seq., in particular pages 206-207.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas
a great book - "Geopoetry" rages Paul
____________________________________________________________________________________

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thaddeus Besedin" <endophasy at yahoo.com>
To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 8:55 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] A new market and its apocalyptic pilot


If only you could refrain from your smug,
condescending assessments and understand that we don't
assume we are right in science. We falsify our
hypotheses. To be "far ahead" of other archaeological
researchers is to have come to conclusions without
sharing final reports on analysis of the chemical and
physical characteristics of supposed YD impact fallout
sediments from as many sites as possible. After all,
multiple impacts may have occured.

CLOVIS ASSEMBLAGES DID NOT COMPLETELY DIE OUT. I was
referring to the projectile point only, which seems
itself to have been the hallmark of the classic
"mammoth hunter" Clovis assemblage. The association of
"butterfly" and lunate crescentic bifacial objects in
Western sites is dual: Clovis and WPLT (Western
Pluvial Lakes tradition, with projectile point forms
having weak shouldering and typically long contracting
bases and subtriangular-incurvate distal outlines).
The WPLT extended contemporaneously, in its earliest
manifestations, with late Clovis, and extended into
the early Holocene until hypsithermal (Holocene
Climatic Optimum/Altithermal) conditions approximately
9.000 - 8,000 BP dessicated Great Basin pluvial lakes,
with a consequent depopulation of desertified regions;
diversification of resource exploitation in addition
to intensification of specialized foraging economies
is supported by the introduction of ground stone
tools, numerous standardized flake, blade, and
core-based tool forms and a larger variety of
specialized hafting variations on projectile points
(contracting base, side-notched, bifurcated base,
notched base). Clovis hunting died out. Direct
superposition of Goshen, Plainview, Agate Basin, Black
Rock Concave, and a multitude of other concave base
and/or fluted, parallel-sided, lanceolate projectile
biface forms occurs over Clovis-bearing strata; these
successors have similar core reduction and
burin/scraper/graver technology asssociated with their
occurrence, as well as an extreme rarity of ground
stone implements, which suggests limited or no
cultural institutionalization of nutritional reliance
on plant resources. People learn to adapt. A tool's
morphology is as transient as its objective purpose.

Read "INITIAL HUMAN COLONIZATION OF THE AMERICAS: AN
OVERVIEW OF THE
ISSUES AND THE EVIDENCE" by Fiedel in PDF format:
http://radiocarbon.library.arizona.edu/radiocarbon/GetFileServlet?file=file:///data1/pdf/Radiocarbon/Volume44/Number2/azu_radiocarbon_v44_n2_407_436_v.pdf&type=application/pdf

Visit Arizona State University's online radiocarbon
journal archives
(http://radiocarbon.library.arizona.edu/radiocarbon/)
with complete articles and tables for calibration
using any number of free and freely available
calibration programs (http://www.calpal.de/).

Cut through the confusion of calendric/radiocarbon
conversion.

"Giant" and "tall" are two different words.

Some stuff on the Andaste (Susquehannock)
http://www.spanishhill.com/Skeletons/Authors_note.htm
Received on Sun 16 Sep 2007 12:38:35 AM PDT