[meteorite-list] Pronouncing Willamette and other meteorite names

From: Michael Murray <mmurray_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:21:39 -0600
Message-ID: <7F90C15E-8F58-4C9B-A8E6-598ABBB4B488_at_montrose.net>

Sorry if this a dumb suggestion but, I was just wondering what would
be the chances of including an ongoing spelling/pronunciation feature
on meteorite nomemclature in Meteorite each quarter, or a couple
times a year possibly?

Mike


On Apr 23, 2008, at 5:24 PM, lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu wrote:

> Doug:
>
> We gringos (those white guys who live on the streets with Spanish
> names
> here in Tucson) probably would get it correct (though you might
> need to
> warn us where the place is).
>
> Larry
>
> On Wed, April 23, 2008 1:46 pm, mexicodoug at aim.com wrote:
>> Darren G. wrote:
>>
>>
>> "MexicoDoug, try this little experiment while in the US-- write down
>> the word "Allende" on a piece of paper. Show it to every gringo
>> you meet,
>> ask them how to pronounce it.
>>
>> Hey Darren, OK. Those sly gr*ngos!!! I just did and tried.
>>
>>
>> They pronounced:
>> "All GIMEEE!!!!"
>>
>>
>> "Better yet, get the whitest looking guy you can find to ask
>> for you."
>>
>> OK - He said:
>> Me See-Ayyy-Eye", You GIMEE!!!
>>
>>
>> "I woud be shocked if anything more than a small minority of English
>> speakers got it right."
>>
>> Not too shocked, just warmly stirred ;)
>>
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Doug
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net>
>> To: Meteorite List <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:16 am
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pronouncing Willamette and other
>> meteorite names
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 02:45:25 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>> As for Allende, someone said there is nothing wrong
>>> With "Anglicizing" a word....You would have a VERY
>>> Difficult time living in So. CA - going to El Cajon (el ca hone)
>>> And La Jolla (la hoy ya) etc. Even in LA, they pronounce
>>> It "row DAY oh" Drive, not rodeo drive, as it was the Spanish
>>> Name place originally.
>>>
>>
>> You can pick and choose names that keep their original pronounciation
>> if you want. But you can also pick and choose names that have been
>> Anglicized
>> if you want. The point is, if a word LOOKS like it follows the
>> spelling of
>> a "traditional" English word-- unless you have evidence
>> otherwise-- you
>> will usually try to pronounce it as if it were a "traditional"
>> English word
>> (and the
>> same goes for non-English speakers, of course-- if the word LOOKS
>> to fit
>> the conventions of your languge, I'll bet that, with no instruction
>> otherwise, you'll try to pronounce it according to the conventions
>> of your
>> language). Your examples "El Cajon" and "La Jolla" look obviously
>> Spanish and not
>> English. But
>> "Allende" looks like a perfectly cromulent English word-- you have,
>> Allentown,
>> PA, for example, not Ayantown, PA. So "Allende" just didn't
>> trigger an
>> alarm in my head to pronounce it differently-- I wasn't being
>> contrary, it
>> simply never occured to me.
>>
>> MexicoDoug, try this little experiment while in the US-- write
>> down the
>> word "Allende" on a piece of paper. Show it to every gringo you
>> meet, ask
>> them how to pronounce it. Better yet, get the whitest looking guy
>> you can
>> find to ask for you. I woud be shocked if anything more than a small
>> minority of English
>> speakers got it right.
>>
>> Also, another issue, I've never heard the large majority of all
>> meteorite names (and, indeed, possibly the majority of all techinical
>> scientific terms, species names, etc that are well known to me)
>> pronounced
>> aloud. Except for those who are professionals in the field and/or
>> go to
>> meteorite sales, I'd say that stands for most people who are
>> hobbyists in
>> obscure fields that are mostly accessed through books and the
>> internet,
>> without a local population of like-minded people to meet with.
>> Back to
>> Williamette, the first (and only) time I have
>> ever heard that word spoken aloud was in that film Darrly Pitt had
>> someone
>> put together-- that guy was pronouncing it right, I thought he was
>> a rube
>> getting it wrong.
>>
>> Meteorites can come from anywhere in the world-- which means that you
>> are potentially faced with knowing the pronounciation rules/
>> phonics for any
>> language in the world-- does that assume that we should be
>> assumed to
>> know how all those other languages work when you just see the word in
>> print? (And I shudder to think of a meteorite named in a Khoisan or
>> similar language that strays profoundly from Indo-European phonics--
>> "anyone have a partslice of
>> clickpopgulp?")
>>
>>> The problem with "Anglicizing" a word is two fold:
>>> 1) it assumes an ethnocentric approach to the word and
>>>
>>
>> So what? If you get rid of all the words that have been adopted into
>> and modified to make English, you'll have-- well, I guess you'll have
>> nothing, English is such a mongrel. Would you rather have English
>> more
>> massively complicated with exceptions to spelling/pronounciation
>> rules
>> than the chaos that it already is? I've been reading and writing
>> English
>> for all my life, and I still have to look up spellings of words
>> (including
>> in this post) because of the mess that English conventions are.
>> Pronouncing the names of all
>> foreign cities and countries the same way the natives do in their
>> language
>> would take massive effort.
>>
>>> Anyway, of course, you can call your mother or father's sister
>>> "ant" or "aunt" and people will understand.... But one is correct
>>> and
>>> One is less so.
>>>
>>
>> Right-- "ant" is correct. Only losers pronounce the silent "u".
>>
>>
>> (Myself, I always wonder how the word "o-rang-utan" to most people is
>> pronounced "arang-atang")
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>
>
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Received on Wed 23 Apr 2008 10:21:39 PM PDT