[meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale

From: Darryl Pitt <darryl_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 10:38:59 -0500
Message-ID: <44DF8989-38A8-4849-98CE-DCD16EAF5E45_at_dof3.com>

Folks,

If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites as a
collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there are
too many aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have
become the norm. Several serious collectors who have been intrigued
with meteorites have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in
because of their belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated"
marketplace. Their words.

In my humble opinion, the quality of the fireball video associated
with the Canadian event makes it worth far more than the low-end
numbers being bandied about.

Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for
a couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain
this doesn't occur.

All best / d


=====================


On Dec 7, 2008, at 3:34 AM, Jason Utas wrote:

> Hello Jeff, All,
>
> The comparison to Carancas was provided as a contrast simply because
> it is such an unusual and different meteorite, and yet the asking
> price for these new Canadian stones is roughly what Carancas is going
> for right now. It's a large, ordinary, equilibrated chondrite fall,
> the likes of which we see almost once a year with some regularity
> (e.g. Thuathe, Amgala, Park Forest, Kilabo, Bensour, Chergach,
> Bassikounou, Berduc, etc.).
>
> And the asking price is more than Park Forest, which was a spectacular
> urban fall, and of which less material was found. The asking price
> for Park Forest currently runs between $20-30/g, from what I can find.
> A dealer or two have it listed at $40/g, but...not average. The
> price at the time was...$20-30/g. It started high, and, because of
> great demand for the urban fall, it stayed high.
>
> All of the other falls are ~$1.20/g (see the beautifully fresh 1.7kg
> Chergach that just passed on ebay, from ET, as well as a brace of
> stones I personally bought in the 120g range from an American dealer)
> to the asking price of $5-10/g for pieces of the other falls (see ebay
> - meteoritica, Hupe - both have Chergach currently listed on ebay, and
> there's quite a bit of Bensour around if you want to compare that),
> not that they sell quickly at those prices. After all, if you look at
> what's listed, well, those are the pieces that have yet to sell.
>
> The only comparable meteorite I can find is the Argentinean fall of
> Berduc, which, though I can't name any names (it was a while ago), was
> listed between $10 and $30/g. Restricted export, few suppliers, fresh
> fall, etc.
>
> The initial determining of the asking price of a fall is essentially
> arbitrary The hunters could set it at $5/g or $10/g if they only
> wanted to cover personal costs (and make a little on the side). Or
> they could try to set it at $1000/g to make a profit. The only thing
> keeping them from charging that much is the knowledge that, at some
> point, they wouldn't turn a profit because their asking price would be
> too high for anyone to buy.
> A dealer looking to turn as high a profit as possible would ask as
> high a price as he could, while still selling all of his material.
>
> Why wouldn't they? Do you really feel indignant enough at the
> dealers' asking five or ten times the price for comparable falls to
> not buy a stone from them? Personally, I do, and I won't. I think
> they're taking advantage of us folks who love them, but who have jobs
> and obligations - people who love them enough that we would go on such
> trips that we could, but who can't because of our responsibilities.
>
> But let's have some fun.
>
> Lets assume these fellows come back with a mere 500g. Just over a
> pound of space, between the two of them.
> And let's assume a high trip/cost estimate:
> Given that next-day flights to Edmonton from where I live were ~$130,
> and let's say they both stay there for a week at $80/night + food, a
> car....it works out to about a thousand dollars for the trip, each.
> $2,000 combined cost.
>
> If that's right, they would break even at $4/g. Each $1/g over $4/g
> would give them $500.
> If they're asking $50/g, they would make...$46x500.
>
> That's a profit of $23,000.
>
> And if my estimate was off and they each flew first-class, rented
> Hummers, and spent $50/day on food, they'll only make $20,000 off of
> 500g.
>
> ...Do you think they got more than a pound of material from the trip?
> I would assume so.
> A kilogram between the two of them would give them almost $50,000.
> Not bad for a quick flight up to Edmonton and a week's fun.
>
> I'll wait for the thaw. Anyone else who has spring break free (dates
> available), drop me a line and I'll see what kind of a trip we can
> arrange. What I can promise is that if I do find enough on that trip
> to warrant selling some, I'll have it at a reasonable price.
>
> Regards,
> Jason
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Jeff Kuyken
> <info at meteorites.com.au> wrote:
>> Steve and Mike both touched on an interesting point here that I was
>> pondering myself the last couple of days. The material found now
>> will be
>> different to the material found weeks, months and years down the
>> track. I
>> didn't realise how much a fall can vary until "Amgala" (Oum
>> Dreyga). I
>> purchased a 15g individual from Mike Farmer from his very first
>> batch of
>> about 1kg. I believe these were about the first stones picked up. I
>> paid
>> about $10/g and it was worth every cent. I have several other Oum
>> Dreyga
>> specimens from numerous sources and NONE come even close to the
>> first 15g
>> which looks like soot would rub off on your hands. In fact no other
>> recent
>> fall I have appears as fresh as this stone. Two other recent falls
>> that come
>> immediately to mind with vast differences in weathering are Park
>> Forest and
>> Moss.
>>
>> So maybe $50/g is high but maybe it's also not so bad considering
>> what the
>> other stones 'might' be like down the track. You can also speculate
>> all you
>> like but there are so many factors which will dictate the price of
>> a fall.
>> And I don't think you can really compare one with another.
>> Comparing this
>> Canadian fall with Carancas is probably not a good measure at all.
>> They are
>> two totally different falls with two totally different stories.
>>
>> The most important thing to remember about the 'value' of a
>> meteorite (or
>> anything for that matter) is that it is only worth what someone is
>> willing
>> to pay.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <MeteorHntr at aol.com>
>> To: <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >
>> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 5:34 AM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
>>
>>
>>> Greg and All,
>>>
>>> I tend to agree that the price MIGHT drop to $10/g, especially if
>>> there
>>> is a
>>> high degree of rusting on the specimens found later next year.
>>>
>>> However, there is a chance the Canadians might offer to buy all
>>> or most
>>> of
>>> the ones already found.
>>>
>>> If the land owners can get a tax credit on $50/g to donate them,
>>> everyone
>>> up
>>> there might be happy to donate them, and at a 50% tax rate, that
>>> is the
>>> same
>>> as getting $25/g cash in hand to the overtaxed Canadians.
>>>
>>> It sounds like most of the land owners are very wealthy, so money
>>> may not
>>> mean anything to them. They might donate them all and not even
>>> care
>>> about a
>>> tax break or cash values at all.
>>>
>>> If only a few kilos make it to the market place, then we could
>>> see the
>>> value
>>> be higher than $10/g.
>>>
>>> If we seen hundreds of rusty kilos coming onto the market, then
>>> we could
>>> see
>>> the prices end up way below $10/g.
>>>
>>> In any case, we probably will have to wait for the 6 months to
>>> pass to
>>> see
>>> what is not purchased by the Canadian Government.
>>>
>>> One thing is sure, if ALL the masses were put on a restricted
>>> Canadian
>>> only
>>> collector market, a few hundred kilos would probably sell for
>>> $0.10 a
>>> gram or
>>> even less.
>>>
>>> A smart thing might be to buy one specimen from Sonny and
>>> McCartney NOW
>>> at
>>> $50/g and then buy more later at $10/g and if the price goes down to
>>> under
>>> $1/g then buy so much more that you will have cost averaged your
>>> first
>>> purchase
>>> at $50/g down to a reasonable level.
>>>
>>> Of course, if you are one of those people that get a rush at
>>> owning the
>>> newest most famous meteorite that everyone is talking about
>>> around the
>>> water
>>> cooler, then how can you put a value on that???
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> And also, realize that if you do buy a meteorite from Sonny and
>>> McCartney
>>> now, you are investing into field recovery. I seriously doubt
>>> they will
>>> make a
>>> profit on this trip even if they sold what little they found at
>>> $100/g,
>>> but
>>> if they can come close to breaking even, maybe next time they
>>> will again
>>> be
>>> able to afford to get on the scene early and find more.
>>>
>>> And at the very least, we should congratulate them on getting to
>>> the
>>> scene
>>> and making an effort.
>>>
>>> Good job guys, and congratulations!
>>>
>>> Steve Arnold #1
>>> www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com
>>>
>>> **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email,
>>> and
>>> favorite sites in one place. Try it now.
>>>
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>>> )
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>>>
>>
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Received on Sun 07 Dec 2008 10:38:59 AM PST