[meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Caredition)

From: MeteorHntr at aol.com <MeteorHntr_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 19:05:15 EDT
Message-ID: <c18.51b0efca.37069eab_at_aol.com>

Dave (and list),
 
I will address the things point by point:
 
In a message dated 4/2/2009 4:47:22 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
carothersdl at gmail.com writes:

Read the article again. A 66 year old lady confronted two burglers on her
property last October. Given that, Sonny and Mike are lucky they only had to
pay a $2K fine. They might have been shot. I like and respect Sonny and
Mike, but if they didn't ask permission in the first place, they had no
business on the pproperty and they only have themselves to blame for the
outcome.

**********
Dave,

Were they actually burglars, or were they just knocking on her door asking
to use the phone for their broken down car?

I am sure they were probably burglars. But my point is, just because a
newspaper says something, doesn't make it so. Almost EVERY meteorite story ever
published has minor if not major flaws in them. And these are not typically
stories where a reporter's bias could be blamed for the bad journalism.
Almost ALL journalism is shotty today. I just don't believe anything in print,
just because it is in print.

Maybe Sonny and Mike are lucky to only have to pay $2,000. Maybe they were
unlucky to have to pay $2,000. Yes, they might have been shot. I like and
respect Sonny and Mike too. I agree, without asking permission, they did not
belong there.

*******************
Dave, you said:

Regarding the Judge and his "Get out of Dodge" statement. That's not
uncommon. If you've ever seen some of the videos of cops in action, you'll
see that they tell suspicious people to get out of neighborhoods all the
time.
 
********
Thanks for the correction Dave. I think I have only seen the phrase "Get
the hell out of Dodge" in old western movies, usually relating to Dodge City,
Kansas. But arrogant law men are slightly different than judges sitting on a
bench with a stenographer recording every statement. Besides, is Hollywood's
perspective always the way it really happens in life?

Of course, IF Mike and Sonny had already made a plea agreement, or simply
plead guilty (whether they really were guilty or not) throwing themselves at
the mercy of the court, the judge I presume could puff up his chest and say
about anything he wanted.
 
And, I don't mean to imply that if either of them were arrested again, and
brought before the same judge, that he would not be more strict the second time
 around. I don't doubt he would throw the book at them.

My preface was that this story seemed a bit fishy to me, that is all.

Do judges in Georgia run for public election? "Re-elect Judge Daniel, he's
tough on space crime!" might be a good campaign slogan.

***************

With regards to a land owner failing to give you a reason why you couldn't
search his property... what makes you think he has an obligation to do so?
It is enough that he owns the land and has said "No". With all due respect
to you, persuing it further with the man is pretty arrogant

Regards,

Dave

*********************
Dave, with all due respect to you, I like to engage people in conversations.
 Me doing so with that man had nothing to do with me being arrogant. If
someone has an objection, in sales one learns to flush out those objections. If
you don't know the objections, then how do you overcome them? Often times,
people have very valid objections. Other times, they don't.

Unless a person comes out with their excuse, or if one asks, it is hard to
find out why they object. Granted, people lie. Sometimes they will say they
don't want you to hunt because 23 years ago, a fisherman left a gate open and
some cows got out. But usually that isn't a valid reason for never letting
anyone ever come on their land again.

Yes, of course, with private property, people don't have to have a reason.
But usually they do have a reason. Unless it is brought out, it is often
hard to rationally talk with someone about a solution.

In West, I was hunting with a group when we got permission to hunt on a guys
land for a couple of days. At the end of the couple of days I asked if we
could keep hunting. The man said "No, I told you that you could hunt for 2
days, and it has been two days." His response seemed strange, so I engaged him
as to why? A little later he expressed that his wife was nervous with
strangers on the property, and that she had gotten their pistol out and was
keeping it on the table to help with her nerves.

Bingo. The real reason. Not that he wanted to be a jerk and kick us off
after only 2 days, but he had a real reason. And a valid one I might point
out. I understood his situation. I told him that I wish we could hunt more,
but that I appreciated what time he gave us. And I left. No arrogance on my
part at all. Maybe I could have tried to find a way to reassure him and his
wife, but I didn't feel like it was probably going to be productive. Maybe
later things would change, and I could go back and regain permission later.
I chose to humbly walk away glad I got to hunt at least a little bit.

On the other hand, probably a full half of the land I got to hunt in West
was on land where the land owner first said no me, or they would have said no
if I had point blank asked them. But after some dialog, they start to get to
know me, and I get to know them. They usually have a genuine concern, albeit
sometimes founded on erroneous information. I explain how I will close the
gates, or won't sue them if I get hurt, or just that it would be a shame
that the meteorites will be lost when their holes fill up with mud after the
next rain, etc. When people find out I am nice guy, not what they might have
preconceived I would be like, they often change their minds.

In sales, it is said "When a prospect says 'NO' they are often just saying
'I don't KNOW enough to say yes... yet.'" If every car salesmen in the world
took buyers at their word when they say "Just looking" very few cars would
get sold. Is it arrogance that a car salesman would think that a person on the
dealer's lot might have some questions, some objections to buying?

Sure, some car salesmen are arrogant. But just because a salesman engages a
customer and flushes out their true concerns, doesn't mean it is a bad
thing. In fact, arrogance and humility aside, being able to overcome those
objections is vital in the sales process.

I know for a fact, that I got permission to hunt in West, and in other
places as well, where other hunters failed, sometimes just days or hours before I
showed up. You might call that arrogance, but I would beg to differ. I call
it persistence. And in the end, more times than not, I have made a new
friend, and the land owner feels good about letting me on to hunt.

I will even go a step further. I think people do the meteorite hunting
community a disservice if they walk away from an initial rejection without
challenging, at least in a nice way, the misconceptions that led to the denial of
permission to hunt. If the decisions are made with faulty information, and
those are not challenged, then people go on, often propagating those feelings
to others.

And, I will clarify, that my "Aha experience" happened in private, away from
landowner. Neither did me or my friend accuse him of growing pot to his
face. But I guarantee that that land owner knew when I left that I genuinely
tried to understand WHY he was taking his stance, even if he didn't want to
share the real reasons for saying no.

Does he have an obligation to tell me why he said no? Of course not. And
did I even imply that he was obligated to? But if you don't ask, often you
don't get an answer.

Dave, I make a living by engaging land owners and obtaining permission to
hunt on their ground. It is probably safe to say that I have more signed
"Meteorite Leases" on file from different land owners than any other meteorite
hunter in the world. One thing that makes people more nervous than giving
people permission to hunt on their land is to have to read, interpret and sign a
legally binding contract.

Talk about raising objections!

But I have made talking to the land owners, flushing out the real objections
and then overcoming their objections a high priority in my business. And
that is why far more times than not, they end up signing the contracts with me.

Arrogance has nothing to do with it.

But thank you for your perspective. Without you expressing your true
feelings, I would have never had the opportunity to explain this better, for you
and the list, and hopefully clear up any misunderstandings.

See? Conversations can be good.

Steve Arnold
Arkansas




**************New Low Prices on Dell Laptops ? Starting at $399
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433304x1201394525/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubl
eclick.net%2Fclk%3B213540718%3B35046385%3Be)
Received on Thu 02 Apr 2009 07:05:15 PM PDT