[meteorite-list] Kalahari 009 - biggest lunar meteorite?

From: Martin Altmann <altmann_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 17:03:29 +0100
Message-ID: <002801c99374$c68b09e0$177f2a59_at_name86d88d87e2>

Hi Mike,

> Does anyone keep or maintain a list of the largest lunar or martian
>meteorites?

Sure. And not only of the largest. Of all.

Here you have the always up-to-date-lists of all lunars and Martians,
maintained by Norbert Classen.
They're comfortable, cause they group the pairings together, so it's easy to
see which ones of that number salad, belong together and stem from the same
original fall.

Lunars:
http://www.meteoris.de/luna/list.html


So according that list, the ranking of the largest specimens would be:

1.Kalahari 009 13.5 kg
2.NWA 5000 11.562kg

(Shisr 162 5.525kg there we have no information yet, whether
it was
1 stone)

3.NWA 3163 1.634kg
4.DaG 400 1.425kg

(NWA 4734 1.372kg if we presume, that it was one mass, which
was hammered into pieces, on the other hand the Bulletin speaks of 2 stones
found.)

5.LAP 02205 1.226kg
6. NWA 482 1.015kg

?7. NWA 2996 0.968kg will be published in this year's Bulletin, no
idea whether it is one stone or several.

8. DaG 1042 0.801kg
9. Dho 025 0.751kg
10. MAC 88105 0.663kg


The ranking by the total amount of material found from a fall:

1. Kalahari 14.98kg
2. NWA 5000 11.528kg
3. Shisr 162 (160,161) 5.525kg (5,683kg if they belong together)
4. NWA 3163-4881 2.448kg
5. NWA 2995-5152 1.944kg
6. LAP 02205-04841 1.930kg
7. DaG 400 1.425kg
8. NWA 4734 1.372kg
9. DaG 262-1048 1.328kg
10.NWA 773-Anoual 1.222kg

Note again, how important the contribution was, from private side, which
shall be now restricted by the will of a few scientists. The Antarctic
campaigns were brought into being with the justification to recover
planetary material. And they were successful. Found in 32 years 19 different
lunars, together a little less than 5kgs.

The private initiatives found in 10 years 40 diffent lunars (+ earlier in 97
Dag 262 + old Calacalong) - together 50kgs.
You see therefore, what for a large asinity they plan to commit. All other
official expeditions of the recent 30 years found a single piece of a lunar,
the 0.2kg of SaU 169 in Oman. Now Oman has forbidden all private hunting,
cause of a few yellers. But the private hunters found there 18 lunars in
more than hundred individual stones & fragments at a weight of 10kgs.

So in fact nobody can understand, what they are doing and for what it could
be good? For science obviously not. The outcome all observed with Libya,
where the find rates completely broke down with a factor of 200 and in
Australia too.

The only arguments they produce and itinerate are:
The lunars would disappear on a "black market" and would be lost for
research.
That argument is disproven.
All lunars are brought to classification (samples as deposit even delivered
for free). The holders of the main masses are very well known, often even
given in the Bulletins.
And the material is offered perfectly transparently and accessible by
everyone via internet. Bulletins they should know as their basic tool in
their field, if they have troubles to use internet, they can put a student
for some afternoons in front of the computer, to gather the offers for them.
So there is no black market. A black market rather would be initiated at all
by the restrictive regulations they try to enforce. But more likely it will
be, that noone will go searching for meteorites anymore. Like in Libya, like
in Australia. And the people in Sahara, they will do without meteorites and
will make their fossils and minerals, like always, cause meteorites always
were a really more than marginal business for them.

Well and to find them by their own... the stats for the last decades aren't
encouraging - and to replace the manpower and experience of the hundreds of
nameless hunters - that would be an immensely expensive task.

Second argument or stereotype they put forth is, that meteorites from the
private sector would be to expensive for research and that the prices would
have soared by the private activities.
The latter is extremely easy to disprove.
The desert meteorites yield the cheapest prices in history and they are
cheap like never before and the rarest and most interesting types are
available at rates so low, like never in history before. Let's stay with the
lunars, 1st was Calcalong - reported were carat-prices leading to a gram
price >1 million, and the very first two years the DaGs had prices at
200k$/g. Now we have prices for the lunars of 400$ up to 2000$ a gram,
depending on the rareness of the subtype and on the size of the cuts.
Most expensive are the historic falls and finds, they are expensive because
of the low availability. Why the availability is low?
Rrrright, because the by far largest amount of them is sitting in museums
and institutes. So that material they do already have and they are doing
their research on these stone for 200 years now.
And expensive are those meteorites from countries which have restrictive
laws.
You saw Gibeon quadrupling since the export prohibition came into force and
you saw Tagish Lake selling 5times more expensive than necessary, cause the
Canadians failed to recover the material in a timely manner and because only
a small amount was allowed to be exported.
So any curator and any institute has now to pay by far more for that stuff
or has to give more exchange material if they swap, than necessary.

So the price can't it be. All official expeditions 1 lunar, 200grams.
Antarctica 5kgs - and the Antarctic campaigns had cost so far several
billions. 50kgs by privateers, prices 0.4 - 2 million per kg.
If they want to fly to Moon or Mars and it is cheap, they pay a few hundred
millions to Lockhead, EADS et.al for 1 mission.
I'm not good in maths, but I fear they are worse.

Can anyone see any logic in their behaviour? Can anyone tell me, what the
advances and advantages for research of their agenda could be?

Well, of course not they pay: you pay, I pay (o.k. me not that much. EUROMET
is dead, cause Antarctica was to expensive for them. On the other hand ESA
was hunting terrestrial basalts to learn about Martian geology... To
research on original Martian rocks would have been much cheaper or to take
them additionally woudn't have been a big deal.)
It's our tax-money. I for my own would wish a more reasonable and effective
use of that money and think it is a grave lapse, that there so few resort to
the meanwhile most important source of today's meteoritics and Earth-bound
planetology: The desert finds.

And I'm missing an outcry of the meteorite scientists.
On what will you work, if they will be successful and there won't be any
meteorites from the hot deserts (else than a few of the usual finds of W3 H5
and L6?)anymore? What shall your colleagues at those institutes will do,
which are not connected to the Antarctic programs?
How will you be able to pay then the few meteorites still freely available,
if the prices will multiply due to the shortage in the aftermaths of
restrictive laws, if you are even now - in times of the historic all-time
low of meteorite prices - not able to acquire that material you desire?

I don't know. I know only, that the world can live without meteorites.
But I can't understand the fervour and the waggery to bring us so far.


Back to topic:

The best list and the best survey of all lunaites with all details and tons
of photos offers Randy Korotev's site:
http://www.meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/moon_meteorites.htm

There you'll have also a photo of the Kalahari 008-mass:
http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/stones/kalahari008.htm


For Martians such a fantastic site doesn't exist,
but Norbert's pages offer a huge reservoir of information and pics:
http://www.meteoris.de/

As well as the complete list of Martians:
http://www.meteoris.de/mars/list.html


Else there would be the NASA Lunar Meteorite Compendium by Kevin Righter:
http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/antmet/lmc/index.cfm


The NASA Mars meteorite site unfortunately lies idle for many years now.
http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/snc/
Maybe NASA isn't that interested in the geology and history of planet Mars
or seen the budget restrictions it would be to expensive to let an
apprentice update the page...


Best!
Martin
Received on Fri 20 Feb 2009 11:03:29 AM PST