[meteorite-list] NWA 4024/2680

From: Mirko Graul <m_graul_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 15:30:57 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <937507.83273.qm_at_web26306.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hi Marcin and List,

oh NWA 5980 is your number of this same material?
What was the result of classification?
Winonaite or silic. iron?
I agree absolutly with Jason and Zelimir.
Also for me the material is the same.
And NWA 2680 are prefered for me.

Many greetings to all,

Mirko (sorry for my bad english)
    

Mirko Graul Meteorite
Quittenring.4
16321 Bernau
GERMANY

Phone: 0049-1724105015
E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de
WEB: www.meteorite-mirko.de

Member of The Meteoritical Society
(International Society for Meteoritics and Planetery Science)

IMCA-Member: 2113
(International Meteorite Collectors Association)


--- Marcin Cimala <marcin at meteoryt.net> schrieb am Di, 19.1.2010:

> Von: Marcin Cimala <marcin at meteoryt.net>
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 4024/2680
> An: "Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Datum: Dienstag, 19. Januar 2010, 16:01
> Hi
> You can add to this also my number NWA 5980. Its paired to
> 4024
> TKW 298g
>
> -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-----
> http://www.Meteoryty.pl? ? ? ?
> ? ???marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
> http://www.PolandMET.com? ?
> ???marcin(at)polandmet.com
> http://www.Gao-Guenie.com? ? ? GSM: +48
> (793) 567667
> --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]--------
>
>
>
>
> > Hi Jason,
> >
> > Excellent link for NWA 4024 compared to 2680
> (Birdsell).
> > From what I just can discern, I am convinced 2680 is
> exactly the same material as 4024.
> > See, as comparison, the pics of both meteorites added
> at the end of their respective Met. Bull reports (although
> NWA 2680 is still provisional, there are pics attached).
> > In particular Mirko Graul provided pics of both.
> > Here they are, for comparison:
> >
> > NWA 2680:
> >
> > http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/get_original_photo.php?recno=5645813
> >
> > and NWA 4024:
> >
> > http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/get_original_photo.php?recno=5645817
> >
> > Very similar slices, almost same pattern (look at
> details!)
> >
> > My modest suggestion:
> >
> > Owing to the fact that NWA 2680 is still provisional,
> why not suggesting to this specific classification working
> team (Zolensky & al ?) to conclude (after a
> thorough? re-examination) that both meteorites are the
> same and thus also consider to maintain only one NWA number,
> thus that NWA 2680 is identical to NWA 4024 (that should
> have priority because first classified)?
> >
> > But here the question is perhaps even more complicated
> because NWA 4024 is said to be a winonaite, while it now
> appears obvious that only one (or a few) achondritic
> clast(s) were analyzed in it, not the (major ?) iron found
> all around (that is IAB ungr.).
> > It would then be wise to fully re-analyze both
> materials (ideally by the same team) and conclude.
> > If there rises evidence that both are the same, then I
> guess there should come an agreement for a common type and
> name ?
> >
> > Sorry, I am not in the Nom Com nor I know how they
> would proceed in such a case, so perhaps my suggestion is
> very naive.
> > I therefore expect more comments from Nom Com experts
> and am ready to humbly accept their conclusions whatever
> they be.
> >
> > This is here only one typical example of something
> that could still be done, because NWA 2680 is not yet
> official.
> > There are probably other such favorable examples.
> > Solving them, even if progressively, will push the
> pairing problem one step forward, though it is obvious, as
> Jeff pointed out, that this pairing problem is really very
> difficult (I'd say impossible) to solve completely.
> >
> >
> > Zelimir
> >
> > At 12:56 19/01/2010, Jason Utas wrote:
> >> Hello John, Zelimir, All,
> >> I've held samples of both; NWA 4024 is
> indistinguishable from NWA 2680.
> >>
> >> http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com/AZ_Skies_Links/NWA_2680/index.html
> >>
> >> http://www.meteoriteguy.com/catalog/nwa4024.htm
> >>
> >> It was likely misidentified the second time around
> because the sample
> >> sent in for analysis was too small for an accurate
> study - or perhaps
> >> the person who performed the analysis simply
> wasn't expecting an iron.
> >>? Either way, it's funny -? an analysis
> based solely on the study of a
> >> clast that comprises at most ~30-40% of the total
> volume of the
> >> meteorite...I've never seen that done before.
> >> It's a IAB with silicate inclusions - a pretty
> one, but an example
> >> that's not crazily different from a few
> already-known irons.? Oh, and
> >> it has winonaite-type silicate inclusions.?
> Just like Campo del Cielo
> >> and many other IAB's...it's pretty typical in that
> respect.
> >> We purchased a ~40g individual as a new iron in
> Tucson three or four
> >> years ago; there were hundreds of small
> individuals of this iron
> >> available at the time, totaling at least several
> kilograms (most
> >> weighed only a few grams; Dean Bessey sold some of
> them on ebay later
> >> that year, again, misidentified, and mixed with
> small mesosiderite
> >> fragments).? In Tucson they were being sold
> as Zagora; we were
> >> surprised to find a very fine pattern after we
> removed an end from
> >> ours for analysis.
> >> Based on what I have seen personally, I would
> estimate the TKW of the
> >> find to be at least ten kilograms, but knowing
> NWA, there could be
> >> (and likely is) much, much more.
> >> Regards,
> >> Jason
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 2:58 AM, Zelimir Gabelica
> >> <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
> wrote:
> >> > Hi John,
> >> >
> >> > NWA 4024 is indeed a nice example of the
> >> discrepancy between Met. Bull. data
> >> > and the amount of stuff circulating on the
> market.
> >> >
> >> > This is perfectly illustrated if you compare
> the Met. Bull. write up
> >> > regarding NWA 4024 an look at the photos
> included at the end of the > same
> >> > report.
> >> > There are some 15 pieces illustrated, coming
> from various sources. > Although
> >> > weights are not mentioned, a rough evaluation
> of the volume of the > pieces
> >> > (comparison with the scale cubes) leads to
> >> evaluate that the total weight of
> >> > the illustrated pieces should largely
> overstep 100 g, probably more.
> >> > Not mentioning that the pieces pictured
> probably represent only a small
> >> > fraction of what is really available as 'NWA
> 4024" in collections.
> >> >
> >> > I have in collection a 4.43 g end section
> (got from Hanno Strufe).
> >> > But my own write up states that Mike Farmer
> >> reported at the time (2006) that
> >> > the tkw was at least 745 grams.
> >> > He explicitly explained this discrepancy by
> the following argumentive
> >> > comment: "first piece sold, more pieces come
> >> out", which is, as we know, not
> >> > really a surprise.
> >> >
> >> > Nothing is mentioned officially about
> >> pairings and I don't know whether this
> >> > meteorite is also being sold under another
> NWA N? but I guess the pics > in
> >> > the Met. Bull. suggest that all the 15 pieces
> were called "NWA 4024".
> >> >
> >> > The tkw of a meteorite is indeed rarely
> updated officially (by the Nom > Com
> >> > and thus reported in the Met. Bulls.)
> >> probably because nobody writes them to
> >> > update the old tkw. I agree that the Nom Com
> should not be blamed for > that.
> >> >
> >> > As a typical example (among many others) the
> official tkw reported in > Met.
> >> > Bull. for Chiang Khan is still 367 grams,
> >> while everybody now agrees that it
> >> > is of several kg.
> >> > When helping Mike Jensen to update the 2008
> edition of? "Meteorites > from A
> >> > to Z", I reported him several such examples
> and, in some obvious cases, > the
> >> > actual tkw was updated (with, as reference:
> "numerous sources including
> >> > internet, personal communications and
> professional experience".
> >> > Needless to say that this updating is not
> official because not (yet ?)
> >> > agreed by the Nom. Com.
> >> > For the cited example of Chiang Khan, we
> >> agreed to the put, as tkw, 75+ at 7.0+
> >> > kg, which is more realistic regarding the
> present market, although not
> >> > official as I agree only the Met. Bull. (Nom.
> Com.) should act as > official
> >> > reference.
> >> >
> >> > There is some pertinent work needed here and
> I am convinced many of us > from
> >> > the List and elsewhere can help in trying to
> >> provide more correct figures to
> >> > the Nom. Com.
> >> >
> >> > Zelimir
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > At 04:38 19/01/2010, John.L.Cabassi wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> G'Day List
> >> >> This has been a very interesting read.
> Quite some time ago, I brought >> up
> >> >> the question about NWA 4024, which
> apparently on the card that
> >> >> accompanied it and the Met Bull stated a
> TKW of 38.1g.? But there's
> >> >> definitely alot more out there ??? Is
> there pairing going on here?
> >> >>
> >> >> http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?sea=nwa&sfor=names&ants=&falls
> >> >>
> =&valids=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=All&srt=name&cat
> >> >>
> eg=Winonaites&mblist=All&rect=&phot=&snew=0&pnt=Normaltable&code=34296
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> And now for another, I purchased this off
> of Tom some time back. NWA
> >> >> 231, the met bull lists is as being
> provisional, it has yet to be
> >> >> classified. The main mass was 1054g. What
> I have is 1048g, 6 grams are
> >> >> missing; I think due to polishing a
> window. But I confirmed with >> Michael
> >> >> C.? and it was confirmed. The label
> on the rock states "NWA 231" so
> >> >> everything checks out. But it's yet to be
> classified. I have not found
> >> >> the time to go ahead with this, but I was
> curious that NWA numbers >> were
> >> >> handed out prior to being classified.
> >> >>
> >> >> http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?sea=nwa+231&sfor=names&ants=&f
> >> >>
> alls=&valids=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=All&srt=name
> >> >>
> &categ=All&mblist=All&rect=&phot=&snew=0&pnt=Normaltable&code=31470
> >> >>
> >> >> Any thoughts?
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers
> >> >> John
> >> >> IMCA # 2125
> >> >>
> >> >>
> ______________________________________________
> >> >> Visit the Archives at
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> >> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >> >
> >> > Prof. Zelimir Gabelica
> >> > Universit? de Haute Alsace
> >> > ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC,
> >> > 3, Rue A. Werner,
> >> > F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France
> >> > Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94
> >> > Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15
> >> >
> ______________________________________________
> >> > Visit the Archives at
> >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> >> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
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> >> >
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> > Prof. Zelimir Gabelica
> > Universit? de Haute Alsace
> > ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC,
> > 3, Rue A. Werner,
> > F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France
> > Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94
> > Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15
> > ______________________________________________
> > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
>
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Received on Tue 19 Jan 2010 10:30:57 AM PST


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