[meteorite-list] NWA 5400: Class of Its Own

From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 17:40:06 -0400
Message-ID: <93909F05655E4B5FAAF0D4437BEF629D_at_greg323a964987>

Hi Mike and List,

For now, NWA 5400 is an Ungrouped Achondrite in a class of its own. An
official classification can not be established at this time due to its being
"One-of-a-Kind" and can not be placed in any known group. I know this does
not help much with your "Biggest" List, but it does point to NWA 5400 as
being one of the most scientifically important, if not the most, meteorite
known!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

----- Original Message -----
From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Cc: "Martin Altmann" <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Biggest Meteorites by Type


Hi Martin, Greg, and List!

Thanks for the heads-up about the photos and links to Kalahari 009. I
have some reading on Dr. Korotev's website (and elsewhere) to do
tonight. :)

Greg, your new NWA 5400, what class is that again? I want to put it
on the biggest meteorites list, but I don't recall what classification
it is. The Met Bulletin lists it as "Achondrite-ungrouped". There
is a 12kg achon-ung from Russia called "Divnoe", but like all
meteorites in this class, each one is a class unto itself, so
comparing Divnoe to NWA 5400 is like comparing apples to oranges. How
should I single out NWA 5400 on the list? I'm trying to remember the
phrase you used in your original announcement for it, but now I can't
find it.

It's tricky trying to discern which specimen is the biggest using Met
Bulletin and CoM data - because in many cases only the TKW is listed
and there is no mention of how many masses or what the largest single
mass was/is. It's easy to divide the TKW by the number of known
masses and get an average weight per mass, but what I am looking for
is an authoritative statement of what the biggest known single mass
is.

For example, the TKW of Al-Haggounia is listed as "3 MT" and there is
mention of a size range - "It is impossible to assess precisely the
amount of material already (and to be) recovered, but according to
dealers, collectors, and Jambon it is about 3 metric tons composing
many samples of varied sizes (from a few g to 50 kg)." But there is
no way to determine what the largest known mass is from this data
alone. The same is true for many meteorite types. Of course, I am
assuming the Al-Haggounia is the largest of the EL3 type. (despite
being erroneously listed as an aubrite)

Best regards,

MikeG

PS - Greg C, email me and remind me to send you a copy of the completed
list. :)


On 6/9/10, Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de> wrote:
> Hi Melanie,
>
> the Tkw of the ordinary chondrites is by faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar
> lower
> than those of the irons.
>
> >From the approx 700 tons in total the Bulletins lists,
> alone 90% are allotted on the only 20 largest iron meteorites.
>
> Unlike in Sahara/NWA the Oman finds are quite good documented,
> there we have in all the 10 years together approx. 6 tons.
> Remember they are stones. Hence probably, (if you would be allowed to do
> so), you could pack them all on a small pick-up truck.
>
> Also the weight of the roughly 7000 Antarctic finds (pairing rate among
> field numbers is 5) is not that impressive, as there even the smallest
> bogey
> of 1g and less can be better spotted than in a rocky desert and is
> collected.
>
> NWA is somewhat difficult to estimate. Because there is no scientific
> interest, as well as no demand of the private collectors in the usually
> weathered ordinary chondrites, so that they aren't classified and listed
> in
> the Bulletins.
> There you could play a little bit around, with the ratios of the rare
> types
> to ordinary types at the observed falls, at Antarctica, at Oman.
> And then you can watch the weights of the rare types among the NWAs to
> conclude, how many ordinary chondrites might have been found among the
> NWAs.
>
> With that method, I would estimate..
> Nja well, what is the payload of a larger truck 20-30 tons,
> Maybe 2-3 trucks for whole Sahara during the last 20 years.
>
> The biiig dark figure you won't find with the stones or with the NWAs,
> but with the big mass irons.
> Because the tkws in the Bulletins stem from old publications.
> Example. Sikhote is given there with 23 tons,
> but it's estimated, that meanwhile up to 100 tons were harvested.
> Soo each weathered common UNWA-sample is rarer than any Sikhote-specimen!
> Same with Campo, Gibeon and so on.
>
> That's also the reason, why all here on the list have always to smile,
> when
> they read in the media, that the meteorite affair would be a multi-million
> or even a billion-$$-biz.
> And that's why most think, that it is a little bit hysterical to decree
> laws
> preventing meteorite hunting,
> cause look, in France and Italy each autumn ten times more of the rarest
> truffles types are found, that stuff, where you have to pay
> 6000-12000$/kg,
> than meteorites in the Sahara.
> So be aware, that the UNWA in your box of chocolate, that kg-stone you
> paid
> 30$ for, is in deed so rare, than the same amount, 1 kilogram, of diamonds
> of the best quality!
>
> Sounds strange,
>
> but is so.
>
> Melanie, you can excellently play around with that tool.
> The Bulletin Database, there you can sort also any search by weight!
> http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php
>
> Best!
> Martin
>
> PS. Mike at least the smaller of the Kalaharis you can see here:
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/stones/kalahari008.htm
>
> If you check the number of publications give there, I'd say, Kalahari is
> well documented.
>
>
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von
> Melanie
> Matthews
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 9. Juni 2010 20:34
> An: Greg Stanley; mike; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Biggest Meteorites by Type
>
> Hey listers.
> This made me think of something.. Is the TKW of ordinary chondrites that
> has
> been recovered so far, still less than that of irons? (someone could give
> an
> estimate?) With such massive amounts of iron meteorites that are known -
> I'm
> reconsidering my stance on the notion that irons are "rarer" than ordinary
> chondrites?
>
> -----------
> Melanie
> IMCA: 2975
> eBay: metmel2775
> Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09
>
> Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never know
> what
> you're gonna get!
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Greg Stanley <stanleygregr at hotmail.com>
> To: mike <meteoritemike at gmail.com>; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Wed, June 9, 2010 10:51:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Biggest Meteorites by Type
>
>
> Is there any CV larger then the largest Allende?
> It has the most total weight by far, but I'm not sure about a single
> stone.
> NWA 2697 was a single stone weighing 9.42 kg.
>
> Greg S.
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 12:34:19 -0400
>> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Biggest Meteorites by Type
>>
>> Hi Listees!
>>
>> I am putting together a list of the world's largest meteorites by
>> type. At first, I am concentrating on the major types and then I'll
>> descend into the rabbit hole of sub-types later.
>>
>> Here is what I have so far -
>>
>> Largest Iron - Hoba
>> Largest chondrite - Jilin
>> Largest aubrite - Norton County
>> Largest Martian meteorite - Zagami
>> Largest Lunar meteorite - NWA 5000 / Kalahari 009
>> Largest pallasite - Brenham
>>
>> If there are any errors here, please correct me. :)
>>
>> I'd love to hear some suggestions for the largest of other types -
>> misc. achondrites, HEDO's, carbonaceous types, etc.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> MikeG
>> http://www.galactic-stone.com
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
>> http://www.galactic-stone.com
>> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
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-- 
------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
------------------------------------------------------------
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Received on Wed 09 Jun 2010 05:40:06 PM PDT