[meteorite-list] WG: Close-up of Iron Martian Meteorite

From: Martin Altmann <altmann_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 20:14:28 +0200
Message-ID: <003301cb6582$50c1c0a0$f24541e0$_at_de>

Hi Mark,

but technically - and that's why we all shall let our fingers from them -
some argue and believe that the object "meteorite" in itself is a cultural
heritage.
Even some curators!
No matter whether it has been found yet, no matter if ever human hand had
touched it.
(Like the rock on Mars).
See also Schmitt/McEwans grotesque (and formally ineligible) interpretation
of the UNESCO convention.

>over who owns the oil under the Arctic!!

Neither it seems totally clear for the Antarctic meteorites,
but they at least could be regarded as cultural heritage, although
Antarctica never was settled by humans, because they are products of
scientific expeditions.

Btw. the Antarctic meteorites, look, there also very dishonorably was
discussed, to spark a hysteria:

Working Paper submitted by SCAR
Committee for Environmental Protection
The Hague, The Netherlands, 11-15 September 2000
ANTARCTIC METEORITES

http://www.scar.org/treaty/cep/cepiiipapers/meteorites.html


"The problem of private expeditions

The biggest concern is that active recovery of Antarctic meteorites by
private or other non-governmental groups will result in the loss of
specimens to science. Throughout human history, meteorites have been
assigned uncommon value and been actively sought out by both scientists and
private collectors. The lure of meteorites has in turn given them both
commercial and assumed value, and unfortunately often proves strong enough
to encourage illegal activities. For example, in spite of laws forbidding
the export of meteorites, an extremely active and systematic "black market"
in the countries of the Sahara has resulted in the loss of thousands of
specimens in recent years. In contrast to the altruistic Antarctic sample
distribution systems, only a tiny, non-representative sample of Saharan
meteorites end up in scientific repositories &endash; and these only in
exchange for money. Even the most "mundane" samples are of great value
commercially. Ordinary chondrites, the most common type of meteorite (about
90% of what falls) typically sell for US $1&endash;10 per gram depending on
a specimen's state of weathering and completeness; similar to the price of
gold. Martian meteorites typically sell for about 100 to 1000 times as much,
and unique Martian meteorite samples may sell for perhaps US
$30,000&endash;50,000 per gram - approaching the price of cut, flawless
diamond. Money can thus be a powerful driving force behind meteorite
recovery. Similar problems plague the field of paleontology as well."

Cool, isn't it?
Totally barefaced lies. Disgusting.

In 2000 even not in Algeria any laws existed.
Neither any black market existed, but a white market - and "extremely
active", well we had a fraction of the meteorite dealers of today, and today
there still aren't many more than a handful.
Cruel lies, that thousands of samples would have been lost for science. In
2000, there the very first NWA-numbers appeared, ...and thousands? DaGs and
Acfers we had some.
And those were the times, where even ordinary chondrites were still
classified. Hence all the type and deposit specimens coming in to the
institutes - and like today of course for free and not for money.
And whether the especially significant meteorites were really so lost? A
short glimpse into the catalogues of the most renown museums and
institutional collections show - they are there, they all have them.
Prices - how sordid - of course none of the desert-OCs had cost 10$ a gram!
And I have my list here,
30.000 and 50.000$ for Martians??? Yes. For Chassigny pinhead-size perhaps
and nothing else. Chassigny is no desert find.

Or check this:
"Unfortunately Antarctic meteorites, because of their rarity on the market,
have exaggerated trade value. For example, the largest meteorite found in
Antarctica (ALH76009) was recovered in the first season of the ANSMET
program before strict protocols were in place. It consisted of dozens of
scattered fragments totaling more than 440 kg. A few pieces ended up outside
of scientific controls, and occasionally they can be found for sale. Asking
price is typically US $500-600 per gram."

Honestly, still a few years ago we all were selling and swapping ALH76009 at
prices between 30 and 50$ a gram.

Although this is a document of distressing ignorance, I won't look, who the
authors were,
because it is an old document, a document of a period.

It breathes the musty air of the Australian mess and certainly
Schmitt/McEwans were inspired by this paper too.
Today scientists in general aren't so ivory-tower anymore.

History proved, that they were going wrong.

Exactly because there weren't any laws in the desert countries, all could
develop so well, that we have today now so many exiting meteorites and more
meteorites than in Antarctica were found,
and supplied at sooooo much more "altruistic" expenses to public, curators,
scientists, collectors than the Antarctic finds.

Problem of those times were, that there was no corrective to such extremist
positions and panicmongering.
Problem of our times is, that we still have no corrective.

Most saw what happened during the time and that this extremist approach, -
historically an occurrence I guess from the mid-1970ies, but rather
subliminal, and then again from 2000 on -
most meteoricists and collectors do know now, that this approach is wrong
and scientifically out-dated, nevertheless we see in some countries still a
few people trying to go this way.
I don't know, maybe this could be a task for MetSoc, to help them, not to
repeat the old mistakes of others and to "protect" not the meteorites, but
the protectionist against themselves?

>Nearer on the horizon is just wait till they start Harvesting He3

He3?
Eeeehm, 28 years ago I learned about nuclear fusion in school. Still there
is no working reactor.
Wasn't it in the 1950ies, that it was announced, that in 2000 there will be
one?
Now I read, it will take another 50 years...
And He3, I read, it's much to inert and one would need a much higher
plasma-temperature than the reactors can generate, which shall be developed.
And working on the Moon is always so expensive.... so expensive, that even
the U.S. had since more than 30 years no He3-prospector up there anymore.
So I think, until fusion will be possible, we will have to find meanwhile
other power plants..
and other power plants than the other plants.
As boys, I confess, we sometimes snaffled two, three corncobs from the
field.
Nowadays, we can't. Now a special corn is everywhere cultivated, which you
can't eat anymore!,
for fermentation plants! Sick. And the cows disappear more and more, cause
everyone wants to plant that ugly corn. What only shall the tourists think
of my Bavaria, if the cows will gone....

Hey that corn they should cultivate and harvest on Moon!


Best!
Martin



-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Mark
Ford
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Oktober 2010 18:01
An: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] WG: Close-up of Iron Martian Meteorite

Hi Martin,

Technically there are space treaty's that are already in place, though not
everyone is signed up or ratified (as usual with treaty's!). So no nation
has recognized rights of ownership over space. (Basically this is a massive
cop out), and as far as i'm concerned whoever recovers the rock is the
owner, so any volunteers to go to Mars and get it?!

To be honest we are a long way off ownership disputes on Mars, as we can't
even agree over who owns the oil under the Arctic!!

Nearer on the horizon is just wait till they start Harvesting He3 from the
Moon - that will probably cause some clashes!!


Mark
Received on Wed 06 Oct 2010 02:14:28 PM PDT