[meteorite-list] Organics on Mars

From: Galactic Stone and Ironworks <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 09:18:06 -0500
Message-ID: <AANLkTimyG3ajhRfEUQLicCGF_HLX11VcKa3XoztUD12N_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hi Martin, Count, and List,

Sales of all SNC meteorites are now suspended until further notice....... ;)

Best regards,


Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites

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On 1/8/11, Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de> wrote:
> Hi Count, I bet both won't happen.
> After the somewhat overhasty and in the end a little bit almost embarrassing
> announcements around ALH 84001 years ago. NASA wouldn't think twice, but a
> hundred times, before declaring former life on Mars.
> Such a claim would need a very strong evidence at least.
> As it touches one of the largest question ever with remarkable impact not
> only on science, but also on culture, philosophy, religion ect.pp
> (Shhht younger folks: Star Wars, Star Trek, the Uncle from Mars etc, isn't
> reality. Reality is so different from that genre. So much more exotic and
> fascinating!
> NOTHING stalwart we have yet in our hands, which could make us sure to a
> certain degree, that indeed there is life elsewhere in cosmos. All so far
> speculations, assumptions, probabilities).
> Organics aren't such - as McKay was quoted too.
> To postulate life or a former life out of the presence of organics, would be
> the same as to say, that comets would have been inhabited by life-forms,
> because amino acids were found in some of the carbonaceous chondrites
> or to conclude that Roscosmos had secretly developed the warp drive, because
> large clouds of alcohol were detected in farer space between the stars.
>>Unfortunately, the loons
> No. Remember, that the 40-years jubilee of Apollo was a gigantic media event
> around the globe, with an increased demand for lunar meteorites.
> Nevertheless the prices remained constantly low and often close at the
> historic all-time-low.
> Or think about the Martians, which exploded in price during the last four
> years only, and not, when the Martian Renaissance started long before with
> all the orbiters and the first rovers, neither a jump happened, when the
> final evidence was delivered by the rovers, that the shergottites definitely
> are laying around on Mars' surface.
> Price explosions are caused - if we let isolated cases, like media-hyped new
> US-falls, aside, where on the one hand specialized falls collectors are
> eager not to miss them out and on the other hands particularly laymen, but
> also curators pay here and there attention - quite always caused not by the
> demand, but by the supply side.
> Simple example - Sikhote multiplied in prices within shortest time, after
> the strewnfield was exhausted.
> Gebel Kamil was now cheap (despite the media), will be later more expensive,
> when the main load will be absorbed.
> And the main factor unfortunately for price inflations are for years now the
> artificial shortage of meteorites, caused by the introduction or the
> persistence of improper legislation, preventing new finds.
> Gibeon is only a small example, Campo will follow btw. Gibeon,
> but the main problem is, and here we observe already partially dramatic
> price increases, is that the most productive find areas of the World were
> and are now closed by the will of a handful unschooled barbarians,
> Oman, Australia, Sahara, down to such hysterical actions like happened in
> South Africa, Namibia, China, Poland, Argentina, Denmark....
> This shortfall of new finds can't be compensated by Antarctica.
> The scientific landscape will be poorer - researchers, collectors and
> curators by far won't have that choice anymore and will have to spend a
> multiple for their - compared to former times: few - meteorites.
> For some of them it will be the end of their occupation with meteorites.
> If not right away the real scientists find together to form a corrective for
> these destructive ones among their fellow-scientists,
> then we all can forget it.
> Then all that, what the great majority among the professionals and amateurs
> so laboriously and so incredibly successfully had built up over the recent
> decades, will be lost. Irretrievably.
> Well, looking back, we should be content with ourselves, that we permanently
> recommended to the collectors as well as sometimes to the curators too, to
> built up also a collection with the rarer and rare types from the hot
> deserts, as long as it is still affordable and as long as it is still
> possible at all.
> Most of us, and neither many of the researchers, hadn't fully got it, what
> we had. An epochal period in meteoritics. Never in history, there were so
> many new finds made on the globe, like in the first decade of the 2000er
> years.
> And according to the will of a few, never again in future so many new finds
> shall be ever recovered.
> We all took notion of how a few countries forbade with their laws all
> private involvement and with that also the meteorites themselves, and we all
> rather found it amazing, how incredibly stupid people can be in these single
> countries. - Now we face that on a global scale.
> To come back, Count, to the Martians.
> Who knows? Possibly there are laying some Martian rocks here around, with
> remainders of cellular and fossilized life inside. Also ALH 84001 - check
> the launch pairing numbers - certainly isn't alone.
> And never in history of mankind the odds and chances, that such a meteorite
> will be recovered were larger,
> to answer one of the mightiest question men was asking.
> Alas, I fear, the stones lay on Australian, Omani or Algerian soil - and
> everyone, who would accept that task to find it, would be declared by that
> kind of above mentioned people to commit a crime.
> We have the technical abilities perhaps, to go to Mars and to retrieve
> samples there and to dispatch them back to Earth. But they would be only
> very limited spot tests. The technical means we have, but the financial
> ones, we hardly can bare.
> So we will never know. Because a handful clerks and a handful curators and
> some people, who seriously pretend to be meteoricists prevent such stones
> from being found.
> (Sometimes I almost think, they must be acolytes of a creationist sect, that
> they are so eager, that no meteorites at all shall be found, those stones,
> which are all soooo much older than bishop Ussher allows to that sect.
> Rrrocks older than all others here on Earth. Not thinkable, if they would
> have evidence of life in a different place! A global sect, as patriots they
> aren't, so much damage they cause to the meteorite research and the national
> collections of the individual countries, which are paying their salaries :-)
> Hey Count, gosh, we can't all, researchers and privateers, emigrate to
> Canada or USA or Germany, where true interest in meteoritics exists, and
> reason rules between civilized persons and which therefore will stay
> liberal, only because some extremists usher in one country after the other a
> meteoritic McCarthy-era.
> We had it all and we had all possibilities.
> Dramatizing? Not at all. The change, we're facing will be dramatic.
> And unfortunately I'm too old, but have no grandchildren, that I or them
> could live until Antarctica will have compensated, what these guys and gals
> destroy now. (Gosh, why one can't retrain them to fields like artifacts,
> environment, protected plants... I guess they would be so much more happy
> and meteoritics would get rid of the most hindering obstacles).
> Well, it's the old problem. Meteoritics as a branch of science is an unknown
> niche.
> That's why the prohibitionists do have carte blanche.
> Count, how many of these countries with such kind of legislation are able to
> run a space program?
> A planetary space program? Also compared with Earth-bound astronomy,
> seen the costs, the results and the possibilities meteorites offer, one
> can't have any form of space exploration that efficient and that cheap like
> meteoritics.
> Perhaps one should inform the individual ministries of science in these
> individual countries about,
> to make an end to that menace and to guide the lost prohibitionists back to
> be occupied with research on meteorites and not in abusing their expensive
> and rare time to eliminate all chances for new meteorites being found.
> Hope rules,
> maybe we will see one day the recovery of such a Martian.
> Hopefully it will happen in a country, where the finder isn't forced by laws
> to keep the stone unanalyzed as doorstop or where he leaves it where it is,
> because he doesn't want to waste nerves, time and money, in being harassed
> by the state and the mettalibans.
> Seen the technical limitations of rock analyzing in situ on a far world (or
> even such things to dig deeper, to drill in the soil there) and seen the
> enormous costs such efforts and missions consume,
> I almost would think, that such a recovery rather or earlier would be made
> in meteorites than with space probes.
> Aaaaaaand to proof, Count, that I don't believe, that a SNC-price-explosion
> will take place for that reason you forecast,
> I'll email you privately to foist the very last slice of one of the most
> spectacular looking shergottites upon you, still at a price from years ago.
> Best!
> Martin
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Count
> Deiro
> Gesendet: Freitag, 7. Januar 2011 20:40
> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Betreff: [meteorite-list] Organics on Mars
> They've been sitting on this for thirty years. I predict NASA will confirm
> biological life has existed on Mars by the end of the year. The price per
> gram for SNCs will explode. Unfortunately, the loons out there will be
> pushing the ersatz martians and the main stream media will be complicit.
> http://news.discovery.com/space/viking-mars-organics-experiment.html
> Best to all,
> Count Deiro
> IMCA 3536
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Received on Sat 08 Jan 2011 09:18:06 AM PST

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