[meteorite-list] Moon Dust

From: Michael Gilmer <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 18:49:57 -0400
Message-ID: <BANLkTimO3xCpeDC=xPprQv5iixg3LP9XsQ_at_mail.gmail.com>


Please stop sending me frantic bolded emails full of confusing text.

I have no dog in this fight and I am not debating you.

You are preaching to the choir and seem to have some issue with me. I
don't know you and I am not disagreeing with you.

I am the 10,000th person to say what I said in my original post. I'm
not the first person to say it and I'm certainly not the most
important person to say it. Why you have singled me out for your
attention is beyond me.

You have nothing to prove to me and I have nothing to prove to you.

If you have an issue with the legality of certain meteoritic
specimens, I suggest that you contact NASA, law enforcement, the IMCA,
the Meteoritical Society, or one of the sellers/owners of the dusty
tape in question. I can do nothing for you.

Best regards,


Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Meteorites & Amber (Michael Gilmer)
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my
News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
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EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
On 6/25/11, Rafael Navarro <rafael.navarro7 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear boy, NOT is matter you win or lose ... just about knowledge. You can
> live to be one of the bunch ... or be special even though it seems one of
> the bunch. The difference is inside, in your head, in  your soul, you can
> understand? You don't must to have a college degree ... just  investigate ,
>  think. Do not to believe whole what others tell you.
> In the case where a NASA intern stole a sample from JSC, he was prosecuted
> and rightfully so. *Sure this is a intent stolen.* *That is illegal.*
> *What I am saying is that  NASA gave lunar rock samples brought to Earth by
> the Apollo 11 mission without having studied it and does not want this fact
> be known to the public. I think I can prove this.O.K. *
> *                                                                   Maybe
> you want read.
> *
> *                                             *
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *This is written to teach the younger generation to not swallow without
> chewing enough.*
> *
> *
> *This is one of those stories that people don?t like to read if they never
> want to admit they have ever been deceived, and they do not want to accept
> it because it would make them feel like fools, and this makes me remember
> the history of Santa.*
> *My parents raised me with the belief that Santa would bring.*
> *Until one time when I turned 12 years old...my father told me the truth and
> gave me the  gifts that He  had bought for me.- At that time, I felt
> something  rare  ... but...actually I had already begun to suspect.*
> *Then the lack of maturity, or perhaps the desire to feel like an adult gave
> me the desire to share the information that I had received with smaller boys
> and then to my surprise and satisfaction I saw that some did not want  to
> believe what I was saying .-*
> *Now I am aware , really: "Nobody is blinder than he who will not see."*
> *The innocence in a child is beautiful, but in an adult is just ugly
> ignorance ... and that reminds me:'Youth is a disease that is cured with the
> years ... but some people do not heal ever because  ...or are so stupid that
> definitely they can not be cured"(I hope some young genius no be offended.)*
> *
> *
> *Before you go ahead reading please keep in mind that: 'The reality goes far
> beyond any imagination.'*
> *
> *
> *
> Some data CURIOSOS.-About Moonrock
> NASA has long tried to hide the delivery of the moon-rock  Apollo 11, why?
> ... Because they were given away without being studied or classified, even
> arrange the handover of March 21, 1973 at a ceremony very well assembled,
> which was given much publicity to try below it to camouflage the delivery
> previous of moon- rocks .
> What else could be the reason for this second?
> *But read this article published by AP about what happened in Holland.
>  "NASA turned over the samples to the State Department to distribute," said
> Jennifer Ross-Nazzal, a NASA historian, in an e-mailer response to
> questions. "We Do not Have Any records about When the rocks and to Whom Were
> Given."
> "The Office of the Historian does not keep records of what Became of the
> moon rocks, and to my Knowledge, There Is That entity no one does so,"
> emailed Tiffany Hamelin, the State Department historian.
> Summarizing the issue: All the "Goodwill Moonrock" that were delivered on 21
> Marzo/73 were part of  the sample # 70017 .- "Each presentation included
> 0.05 grams of" dust "(encased in lucite) retrieved by the Apollo 17
> astronauts, as well as a flag of the nation recipient carried aboard the
> mission. " (Collect Space)
> But rocks that were delivered Nov./69 ; *as personal gifts*   were not
> "dust" of 0.05 grams, or were "encased in Lucite." And NASA has never said
> of where (which sample) was taken those part. (They can't do that, they  not
>  hold even a small amount of these samples.) These rocks are truly unique.
> But NASA has not forgotten that Moon rocks were given away without being
> properly studied and classified, and in 1998 launched "Operation Lunar
> Eclipse" is supposed to recover  Rocks Lunar;  but which? Those what gave no
> study or classification, or "Dust" of 0.05 grams sufficiently studied and
> classified and which still has a good amount? (The Chondrite marked with the
> # 70017)
> {At this point in history should remember the following about the 70.
>   I will not go into detail about those events, but remember that then the
> U.S. supported by 40 other countries were fighting the war
> Vietnam and was looking to consolidate and look for more international
> support for which organized the (Presidential Good-will tour "Giant Leap
> Apollo 11") in which as a personal gift given to some leaders of "friendly
> countries" samples of the rocks broughtthe Moon.}
> The scientific and technological development was ... the 70's.
> 41 years ago the scientific community did not have the instruments that
> account today.Even the use of electron microscopes was not yet widespread.
> We did not have Internet.
> I imagine that in some cases, as occurred with the sample arrived at
> the Universidad
> Nacional de Colombia in Bogota (and Spain) have shown after being reduced to
> dustand 'analyzed and studied "was to end in ... drainage.
> On the other hand, as is logical, after the first two landings, which were
> made at an interval of time corto. *July 20/69 , Apollo 11 and Nov.14/69,
> Apollo12*. (Less than 4 months) worldwide, but more in the United States of
> America and especially in NASA, I thought we could go to the moon when we
> wanted.
> It is not difficult to understand that in those years the value of RL was
> very relative, evenNASA, which gave them a somewhat careless handling,
> lavish
> gifts and as they were found in the Sea of Tranquility ... although many
> years
> later argue that only give one sample for each country.
> The first sounded the alarm that NASA received about the value of these
> rocks was the greed of private collectors who pay large sums for a small
> amount of either of these samples.
> On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 2:08 PM, <cdtucson at cox.net> wrote:
>> Michael, Rafael, List,
>> Is it possible NASA has it's own people (police) enforcing this self
>> proclaimed laws against owning material. Or is their a congressional order
>> making this material illegal after the fact? After is was given away as
>> trophies.
>> This method of self enforcement seems to work well for another Federal
>> agency known as  the IRS.
>> They have their own set of rules and also self enforce their own rules
>> with
>> their own enforcement people without do process of the law.
>> I ask because as I have said before on this list; I have seen and held and
>> actual piece of the moon that was returned from the Apollo missions.
>> A friend brought it over to my home. I did not think to photograph it at
>> the time but it was about a 5 gram fragment encased in resin and it had a
>> presentation plaque right on it that stated it was an actual piece of the
>> moon returned from an Apollo mission. It did not say it was a facsimile of
>> the moon but a real piece.
>> This was given to one of the bosses at one of the aerospace companies that
>> built the ships for the missions. He has since passed away but, retired
>> from
>> Raytheon right here in Tucson and it was shown to me by his grandson.
>> Out of fear from this story surfacing a couple of years ago he  now
>> refuses
>> to show it to me again until this is cleared up. He too has not been able
>> to
>> find any written evidence that NASA has the legal right to confiscate this
>> material.
>> If memory serves me correctly, The past article stated that this material
>> was only on loan to these lucky recipients but, it is to be returned upon
>> their death. The piece I saw did not say that it was on loan anywhere on
>> the
>> [piece itself.
>> So, again, my question is. Do these NASA folks or congress actually have
>> any of this ownership business in writing any where we could see it?????
>> Carl
>> --
>> "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
>> Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote".
>> ---- Michael Gilmer <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi Rafael,
>> >
>> > I do not know for certain that owning Apollo moon dust is illegal.  In
>> > fact, I think samples such as Florian's tape specimens are or should
>> > be legal.  Up until recently, I just assumed that they were.  The fact
>> > that law enforcement has stepped in and is actively pursuing these
>> > samples at least gives the impression that law enforcement thinks it
>> > is illegal.
>> >
>> > I am not an attorney, nor have I worked for NASA or government.  But,
>> > it seems to be commonly-accepted wisdom that owning NASA-sourced
>> > samples is a no-no.  When the US government handed out "moon rocks" to
>> > other governments, some of these eventually found their way onto the
>> > private market.  There was at least one publicized case where the
>> > sample was confiscated and returned.
>> >
>> > So whether it is legal or not, the current modus-operandi of law
>> > enforcement is to harass and prosecute owners of such samples as soon
>> > as they are discovered.
>> >
>> > In the case where a NASA intern stole a sample from JSC, he was
>> > prosecuted and rightfully so.  But, I do not agree with people being
>> > harassed or arrested for trading tiny pieces of tape with a milligram
>> > of dust on them - that is silly and a waste of taxpayer money.
>> >
>> > You won't get any argument from me about that.  :)
>> >
>> > Law-enforcement is not infallible and the make mistakes all the time.
>> > Just because someone is arrested for something, doesn't mean it is
>> > illegal.  But, the fact that people are being harassed for this now,
>> > would make me think twice about trading in this material until the
>> > legal questions are resolved.
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> >
>> > MikeG
>> >
>> > PS - nobody is going to lose this debate, because in my case, you are
>> > preaching to the choir!  :)
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Galactic Stone & Ironworks - Meteorites & Amber (Michael Gilmer)
>> >
>> > Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
>> > Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my
>> > News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
>> > Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
>> > EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
>> >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> > "> I ask to Michael Gilbert (Galactic Stone), can you tell me exactly
>> *(Date)*
>> > > *which*  law prohibits individuals to have samples of lunar rocks
>> brought by
>> > > NASA."
>> >
>> > This is something I would like to know as well, and if anyone can
>> > answer this definitively, I am anxious to hear it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 6/25/11, Rafael Navarro <rafael.navarro7 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > Well ,Michael Blood you can not talk about the speck in your brother's
>> eye,
>> > > when you do not see the beam in yours, (the eyes not see to inward).
>> > > I had the suspicion that NASA gave lunar rock samples  (Apollo 11)
>> without
>> > > having studied, hize a research about it and wanted to share my
>> findings
>> > > with members of Met-list, but the editors of the  list, censored my
>> posts
>> > >  by be suspect   and out of place.
>> > > *Definitely, the ignorance is bold.*
>> > > I ask to Michael Gilbert (Galactic Stone), can you tell me exactly
>> *(Date)*
>> > > *which*  law prohibits individuals to have samples of lunar rocks
>> brought by
>> > > NASA.
>> > > Or you only repeat those words because you've heard to someone say it?
>> > > Also, you believe that among all the samples collected on the moon
>> > > only
>> > > arrived two microscopic meteorites?
>> > > You believe everything what others say?
>> > > You know something about it, or also repeat this like a parrot ?
>> > > *Yes in truth, It is terrifying! They are EVERYWHERE!*
>> > > *
>> > > *
>> > > Rafael Navarro
>> > >
>> > > *PD : *And do not worry about answering;I know that you will  do not.
>> > > I suspect that you are smart enough not to continue a discussion that
>> you
>> > > are not sure of winning.
>> > > *
>> > > *
>> > > *
>> > > *
>> > >
>> > ______________________________________________
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Received on Sat 25 Jun 2011 06:49:57 PM PDT

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