[meteorite-list] CI1 meteorites and cyanobacteria

From: Linton Rohr <lintonius_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 19:21:49 -0800
Message-ID: <67F4C1427DA04E04B3EDF225347FA5AA_at_D190TH71>

Kirk, Marc, and listoids at large,
I'm hardly qualified to opine scientifically, but I think we can all agree
that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof".
A good weekend to all.
Linton

----- Original Message -----
From: "Becky and Kirk" <bandk at chorus.net>
To: "Marc Fries" <fries at psi.edu>; "Meteorite-list List"
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] CI1 meteorites and cyanobacteria


> Hi All,
> But---on the other hand---what Marc is saying could also be used for his
> own "negative" analysis or his own "Lowell Effect" of this possible new
> E.T. discovery. Indeed, Marc is in fact, "letting your own doubts make a
> fool of your reason".
>
> Since everyone will always have their own "predisposed opinion"---one
> could say this about both sides of the coin----yes? We need to wait and
> see what future analysis may find before pronouncing something as "110 %
> bullshit".
>
> Just my two cents.
> Kirk.....:-)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marc Fries" <fries at psi.edu>
> To: "Meteorite-list List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 5:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] CI1 meteorites and cyanobacteria
>
>
>> Howdy all
>>
>> Here's my two cents, pure and simple - this paper is 110% bullshit. The
>> filaments the paper addresses are nothing new. They are apparently
>> amorphous sulfates formed from aqueous alteration of fine sulfides in the
>> CI's. You can see that in the EDS spectra published in the paper - the
>> predominant elements are sulfur, oxygen and magnesium. I.e., they are
>> sulfates (e.g. Mg2SO4 + hydration water). Some silicon "leaks" into the
>> measurement from materials behind one of the filaments.
>> I happen to have two CIs on loan to me right now - Orgueil and Tonk. I
>> have Raman spectra of the filaments found in both meteorites. They are
>> sulfates. My personal Surprise Meter registers a whopping Zero.
>> The argument is made that the lack of nitrogen in these "fossils" implies
>> that they pre-date their residence on Earth. This argument starts with
>> the assumption that the filaments are fossils, and then uses the
>> non-detection of nitrogen to "prove" that they are fossils. This is a
>> circular argument. Here's a more supportable hypothesis: no nitrogen was
>> detected because they are not fossils, but rather exactly what has been
>> known for decades - they are amorphous sulfate filaments caused by
>> hydration of fine sulfides in the rock.
>>
>> This paper is a result of something I like to call the Lowell Effect.
>> Basically, it is what happens when someone stares into an instrument
>> expecting (or hoping) to see proof of life in the target. Percival
>> Lowell did it through a telescope with Mars, drawing elaborate "canals"
>> in his mind which indicated (to him) an advanced martian civilization.
>> Certain other scientists do it with the Apex chert while peering through
>> microscopes, and with hydrothermal graphite found in rocks from Isua,
>> Greenland through all manner of instruments. The author of this paper
>> pulled a Lowell Effect result out of his posterior after looking at CIs
>> with an electron microscope. Where I come from, we also call that
>> "letting your hopes make a fool of your reason".
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Marc Fries
>>
>>
>> On Mar 5, 2011, at 6:56 AM, drtanuki wrote:
>>
>>> Dear List,
>>> There is a very interesting newly published paper about cyanobacteria
>>> found inside CI1 meteorites:
>>>
>>> Journal of Cosmology, 2011, Vol 13, xxx.
>>> JournalofCosmology.com, March, 2011
>>> Fossils of Cyanobacteria in CI1 Carbonaceous Meteorites:
>>> Implications to Life on Comets, Europa, and Enceladus
>>> Richard B. Hoover, Ph.D.
>>> NASA/Marshall Space Flight Center, Huntsville, AL
>>>
>>> The abstract can be read here:
>>>
>>> http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/03/fossils-of-cyanobacteria-in-ci1.html
>>>
>>> Best Always, Dirk Ross...Tokyo
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Received on Sat 05 Mar 2011 10:21:49 PM PST