[meteorite-list] FW: Rocks from Space Picture of Day - March 16, 2011

From: Rob Lenssen <rlenssen_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 21:30:19 +0100
Message-ID: <001a01cbe418$f803d5a0$e80b80e0$_at_planet.nl>

Hi Arnaud (and List),

The label talk reminded me of a Sikhote Alin Label discussion we had on this
List about 10 years ago (how time flies...)
As the List archives "only" go back to 2004, I added two of the Emails
below. I think they contain information that may be of interest to you.
Not all of the links in there are working, but I reloaded mine.

Here are some more photos of labeled S-A's, I collected back then (the
photos!).
Don't remember the sources. I hope the owners will forgive me posting
without asking permission:
http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/Sikhote02_label.jpg
http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/Sikhote03_label.jpg
http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/Sikhote04_label.jpg


Best regards,
Rob Lenssen

PS: For those interested, here are some more recent photos of my best
Sikhote Alin:
http://www.asteroidchippings.com/collection_links/Sikhote_Alin_473g.html



-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Namens The Tricottet
Collection
Verzonden: woensdag 16 maart 2011 16:22
Aan: Gary F; Michael Johnson
CC: MeteoriteList
Onderwerp: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of Day - March 16,
2011


First thank you all for your nice comments.

Gary, I thought the same thing but I would not trust their typewriters. You
can see for example that they used the letter "I" instead of the number "1"
for that specimen:
http://www.thetricottetcollection.com/img/img_met/1-5_SikhoteAlin_SAS.jpg
Or maybe the "8" is stretched because of the soft sticker.

Moreover, it seems that all early numbers are very large masses.

Best regards,
Arnaud


The Tricottet Collection
(Historic Minerals, Fossils & Meteorites) www.thetricottetcollection.com
Facebook: The Tricottet Collection
Twitter: TricottetColl


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: meteorite-list-admin at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-admin at meteoritecentral.com] Namens geoking at notkin.net
Verzonden: zondag 4 november 2001 5:19
Onderwerp: [meteorite-list] Numbering of Meteorites + Krinov Book [long]

Dear Dave, Rob, Steve, and List:

I'd like to return to the thread from a few days back, when Dave Harris, Rob
Lenssen, Steve Schoner and I were discussing labels on some "old collection"
Sikhote-Alins. Collection numbers interest me, so I've done a bit more
research over the past few days.

Just to recap: Dave and I both recently acquired nice, uncleaned and
slightly rusted Sikhotes from Rob Wesel (thanks Rob). They carry a white
gauze label, with four-digit typewritten collection numbers.
Steve Schoner was quite certain these are Russian National Academy of
Sciences numbers, and Rob provided some useful info and photos, and also had
a labelling question (I think I have your answer, Rob, see below). However,
the actual numbers on our specimens don't match Krinov's numbers, so there
was some doubt.

First off, Rob, in style the labels do appear to match the photos you
supplied here:
http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/SA1.jpg and here:
http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/SA2.jpg

I find it odd that specimens with really low numbers, like the one in Rob's
photo "0067," and mine "0112," were evidently not collected during the first
expedition to Sikhote-Alin, due to the light coating of rust. You would
expect the really low numbers to have been from the earliest expedition (and
therefore to be in nearly pristine condition), but I suppose they could have
been numbered out of order at a later date -- back in Moscow or St.
Petersburg. Or maybe they
were just left outside in an old crate somewhere : )

Anyway, I have to agree with Steve S., and I think I've found proof that
these are official Russian labels. Earlier this year, I had the good fortune
to acquire a signed copy of Krinov's book about Tunguska and Sikhote-Alin.
This book used to belong to Dr. Elbert King, and I ended up with it thanks
to Steve Arnold of I.M.B. The book is
(obviously) in Russian and, as far as I know, has unfortunately never been
translated into English. My very basic Russian is not up to the task. The
title reads (phonetically) "Zhelezny Dozhd," and the cover is a two-color
reprint of the famous Sikhote-Alin stamp. On pg. 54 of the book -- published
in 1981 -- is a b/w photo of a Sikhote-Alin specimen which appears to carry
the same type of label. I know it's a terribly bad quality image, but you
should have seen it before I cleaned it up in Photoshop : )

Have a look: http://www.notkin.net/collection-numbers.htm

Compare the b/w image to the color pic of my Sikhote-Alin "0112,"
immediately below on the same page.

Steve, if you have time, it would be most interesting to see a photo of one
of your Sikhotes with the labels that you know to be from the Russian
Academy.

Finally, Rob asked if anyone could help him to identify the label on his
collection piece here:

http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/SikhoteAlin-7a.jpg


Rob, please compare your photo to the bottom picture on my page:

http://www.notkin.net/collection-numbers.htm


My photo is of a piece of Chico Hills, New Mexico (H4). The yellow and black
collection number appears to match the one on your specimen, and is from the
Herb Obodda Collection. Herb was a well-known mineral collector, who also
had a substantial meteorite collection. Allan Lang of R.A. Langheinrich
Meteorites provided me with this specimen, and the information about the
collection labels (thanks Allan). Hopefully that answers your question. BTW,
the other label is from the Barbara Curatin Collection (not sure about the
spelling of her name).

Okay, I hope I haven't put the rest of you to sleep, but hopefully Dave and
Rob are happy.

Regards,

Geoff N.

Show your support at the Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund -
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/my-pay-page/PKAXFNQH7EKCX/058-5084202-71
56648
_______________________________________________
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: meteorite-list-admin at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-admin at meteoritecentral.com] Namens Rob Lenssen
Verzonden: donderdag 1 november 2001 22:03
Onderwerp: Re: Re: [meteorite-list] numbering of meteorites

Hi Dave,

It's not that I want to spoil your party, but I also own a
Sikhote-Alin-with-a-label, and just like you did some research.

This is what I found:

Krinov's book "Giant Meteorites" contains a great section about the
Sikhote-Alin meteorite shower. There are nice pictures like this one
( http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/SA2.jpg ) of some of the 313 unfragmented
whole single specimens found during the 1947-1950 expeditions. It also
contains a complete list of all specimens found, including their Soviet
Academy of Sciences inventory numbers. They are all four digit numbers
starting at least with a "1". Lots of 1600-numbers though.

In the journal Chem. d. Erde (15 Chem. Erde Bd. XXIX; in German) dated 1970
(Walter Zeitschel kindly provided me with a copy 6 years ago), Dr. Krinov
also reports about the 1967-1969 expeditions. Also some pictures here like
this one ( http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/SA3.jpg ). Also two and three
number digits this time. Krinov reports about 958 more unfragmented whole
single specimens found. He talkes about good preservation of the crust,
although also having brown color due to oxidation. More expeditions were
expected to follow (1970 and later).

Dave, your typewritten '0086'-number on a "look like linen"-label, reminded
me of a picture a saw in a dealers catalog ("Catalog and handbook of
meteorites") I received in 1992. Does your sample look like this number
"0067", I scanned from the catalog: http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/SA1.jpg
?
I don't know it's origin, but it certainly does not have the surface quality
of the 1947-1950 Krinov finds.

No answers here, but I hope you appreciate the information.

I am also still looking for information on the origin of my sample (
http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/SikhoteAlin-7a.jpg ,
http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/SikhoteAlin-7b.jpg ,
http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/SikhoteAlin-7e.jpg ). I bought it from Eric
Twelker from "meteoritemarket" + like it very much. It does not look be
wire-brushed or chemically cleaned. Trying to find some info, I sent an
Email to the curator of the Soviet Academy of Sciences collection two months
ago, but did not get an answer (yet).
Anybody else who can shed some light here?

Rob Lenssen


-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Dave Harris <entropydave at ic24.net>
Aan: geoking at notkin.net <geoking at notkin.net>; metlist
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
CC: Rob and Colleen <iguana at pcez.com>
Datum: donderdag 1 november 2001 19:53
Onderwerp: Re: Re: [meteorite-list] numbering of meteorites


>Hi Geoff!
>Wow! That's some detective work - amazing!!
>And that's also some provenance too! Wasn't Krinov the first
>investigator of the Tunguska event? I know that name...
>I am totally in love with that SA anyway - it was on the original eBay
>advert - I recall showing it to a (rather bored) colleague at work saying "
>that's m'boy! I want that one!", but obviously, not being in the
>running
for
>the whole collection I thought it impossible I would procure it - then
>the inestimable Mr. Wesel swoops in from no where and scoops the lot
>and
whaddya
>know! I get the chance to buy it!
>I prevaricated for a day - had I not I would have had your one too!!!
>So, a multitude of thanks to all of those involved - you, Steve Schoner
>(a name I have seen an awful lot on the list!) and Rob Wesel for giving
>me the opportunity to purchase this breathtaking specimen!
>it's gone to a great home!
>
>dave
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <geoking at notkin.net>
>To: <entropydave at ic24.net>
>Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 4:14 PM
>Subject: Fwd: Re: [meteorite-list] numbering of meteorites
>
>
>> Steve Schoner posted:
>>
>> >These are original Soviet Academy of Sciences labels. That is the
>> >way the did it, and I have in my collection two pieces that were
>> >sent to me by the late Dr. Krinov in 1972 with the same type
>> >labels--
>>
>> Holy cow! I was hoping they were maybe Russian labels, but I had no
>evidence.
>>
>> Steve Schoner should know -- he is quite the expert (and a very nice
>> guy). This is very exciting. Okay, so if you ever decide to get rid
>> of that Sikhote, I'm your customer : )
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Geoff N>
>>
>>
>
>
>Show your support at the Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund -
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/my-pay-page/PKAXFNQH7EKCX/058-5084202-71
56648
>_______________________________________________
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


Show your support at the Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund -
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/my-pay-page/PKAXFNQH7EKCX/058-5084202-71
56648
_______________________________________________
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Received on Wed 16 Mar 2011 04:30:19 PM PDT