[meteorite-list] RSVP re Valera - documentation?

From: Darryl Pitt <darryl_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 17:05:17 -0500
Message-ID: <563BF3B7-9C8B-4320-B947-6819946E2C55_at_dof3.com>

Hi,

That's very funny---and not just!!!

Related to the foregoing, I just heard from the owner of the small 4.195kg specimen. He confirmed it's extremely fresh, that it has approximately 50% crust and that he acquired it from Al Lang (who purchased it at the Macovich Auction previously referred to) and that a picture of it can be seen on Al's site: http://www.nyrockman.com/museum-12.htm


All the best / d



On Nov 21, 2011, at 4:47 PM, Yinan Wang wrote:

> Get out your CSI kit and check for blood using Luminol on your fusion
> crusted pieces! :)
>
> -Yinan
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Don't put much faith in this particular recollection, but I seem to recall that we don't know. I'm already back in touch with Professor Ferrin and will attempt to answer all....it's my hope to induce him to write the comprehensive piece previously referred to. ;-)
>>
>> Best / d
>>
>>
>> On Nov 21, 2011, at 12:53 PM, Michael Blood wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Darryl,
>>> Thanks for the added info.
>>> Can you tell us if the material "out there" is from the actual
>>> Hammer stone that killed the cow - or is some of it so and the rest
>>> From additional "rocks" of the fall?
>>> This would be valuable to know.
>>> Thanks, Michael
>>>
>>> On 11/20/11 11:03 PM, "Met. Darryl Pitt" <darryl at dof3.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> VALERA REVISITED
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> While not among my favorite stories, as you'll soon discover---I have no doubt
>>>> whatsoever Valera killed a cow. In brief, there was far more data collected
>>>> than the affidavit (which was one person's mere summary of events).
>>>>
>>>> Here's the story:
>>>>
>>>> Shepherded by Marty Zinn---the impresario of the Tucson Mineral and Fossil
>>>> Shows---Valera was first offered at the Macovich Auction 11 or 12 Tucson's
>>>> ago. Professor Ignacio Ferrin---a Venezuelan astronomer...and quite the
>>>> gentleman....acquired the meteorite after word of its existence wound its way
>>>> to him. Marty heard from Professor Ferrin who directed him to me, and he
>>>> consigned Valera to our auction.
>>>>
>>>> For those who are unaware, the clavicle of an otherwise healthy cow was
>>>> shattered and odd stones---only much later determined to be meteoritic---were
>>>> found near the carcass. The sonic phenomena associated with a meteorite fall
>>>> were experienced. Two large fragments from one mass were recovered (~35 and
>>>> 7.5 kg), and left outside, one of which was used as a doorstop over a period
>>>> of years---I imagine the lighter of the two. A third smaller specimen which I
>>>> vaguely recall as being pretty much complete had been brought inside and was
>>>> quite fresh. The specimens in circulation come from the larger fragments.
>>>>
>>>> Professor Ferrin gathered far more information other than his procurement of
>>>> the affidavit. He has long been exasperated by the ongoing questioning of
>>>> Valera's "killer" provenance by the meteorite collecting community, and has
>>>> gone on-record addressing this topic more than once.
>>>>
>>>> There are two important points worth mentioning here---both of which are
>>>> rather ironic.
>>>>
>>>> 1. It's important to recall that Ferrin was informed that the farm owner on
>>>> whose property the meteorite fell, physician Argimiro Gonzalez, didn't think
>>>> anything at all of this event. Dr. Gonzalez was well aware that rocks fell
>>>> out of the sky, and so it seemed entirely reasonable to him that such impacts
>>>> would occasionally result in fatalities. Without the rocks ever having been
>>>> analyzed, Gonzalez, and later his family, considered the rocks as
>>>> extraterrestrial curiosities---a conclusion which resulted from a dead animal
>>>> which had been pulverized by blunt force trauma whose instrument rested
>>>> nearby. It was the simplest explanation and somewhat a different tack than
>>>> would be taken by the meteorite community: simply expressed, Gonzalez
>>>> concluded as a result of a death that what he had must be a meteorite. It was
>>>> many years later that Ferrin heard the story, confirmed Gonzalez's hypothesis
>>>> and facilitated Valera's classification.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Every few years I have to admit to having undermined Valera's exceptional
>>>> provenance, and here's how:
>>>>
>>>> The larger of the two massess did not sell at our auction (it was a big rock
>>>> and pricey---while extremely inexpensive on a per/gram basis) and Ferrin
>>>> suddenly found himself in an unexpected financial bind. He did not have
>>>> particularly high expectations for how much it should sell---but he absolutely
>>>> expected it would sell, and now he was stuck---and he didn't want to take 40+
>>>> kg of rocks back to Venezuela. I felt badly as I was confident it would sell,
>>>> and informed Ferrin of the same prior to his decision to bring Valera to
>>>> Arizona. So I decided I would purchase it---but by doing so I now put myself
>>>> in a huge financial pinch. So what did I do? The most foolish thing I've
>>>> ever done in meteorites: while I don't recall the precise numbers, I sold a
>>>> portion of the rock to another dealer for about my cost...perhaps a dollar a
>>>> gram, as I recall, and then we both sold Valera super-cheaply.
>>>> Percentage-wise we made a nice return, but the fact is that by having offered
>>>> it so ine
>>>> xpensively, a perceived valuation was created for a meteorite that should be
>>>> selling today for easily $250+/g.
>>>>
>>>> If you have a specimen of Valera---treasure it. If you don't have one, you
>>>> might consider getting some from somewhere as the price has been rapidly
>>>> escalating of late. This past June at a Heritage Auction, a 309 gram specimen
>>>> sold for $5,975 or about $20/g. I'm informed that small specimens today
>>>> typically sell for $25/gram and more---and as you know, getting from $2.50/g
>>>> to $25/g is the hard part.
>>>>
>>>> I'll never forget when I was on the exhibit floor at a Bonhams sale a couple
>>>> of years back and someone declared, "I don't think Valera killed a cow---it's
>>>> selling for MUCH too little for having done so." That was such a funny notion
>>>> to me...how MY screw-up fueled an inaccurate impression. (I did not mention
>>>> my role to the fellow ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All the best / Darryl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 20, 2011, at 12:51 AM, MexicoDoug wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear List;
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a question about the cow killing incident.
>>>>>
>>>>> The meteorite fell in 1972. I understand from rumors that it is absolutely a
>>>>> confirmed cow killer. But the document doesn't read as an absolute fact, but
>>>>> rather circumstantial evidence (which as a meteorite collector appreciating
>>>>> the size of the mass I want to believe quite strong).
>>>>>
>>>>> The affidavit was signed in 2001, after the Doctor on whose property the
>>>>> meteorite landed had died.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yet when I heard this, it was explained to me that a doctor had pronounced
>>>>> the cow dead and there was injury visible on the cow caused by the falling
>>>>> mass (a 50 kg stone). I always thought that a Doctor actually swore to the
>>>>> wound on the cow and was convinced it was caused by the stone, since a doctor
>>>>> would be expected to have a good idea of what such a wound would look like.
>>>>>
>>>>> This thread just prompted me to me read the affidavit. It doesn't say
>>>>> anything about wounds on the cow.
>>>>>
>>>>> The affidavit was by the Doctor's visitor, and specifically does not even
>>>>> mention that the doctor made any opinion about the meteorite killing the cow.
>>>>> But does mention the doctor had owned the property and passed away
>>>>> subsequently. No one from the Doctor's family, just the visitor, Juan
>>>>> Dionicio, commenting 30 years later says it "appeared" (presumably him since
>>>>> he doesn't mention the doctor) the cow was killed by the rock when he saw it
>>>>> the next day. It does not mention any injuries or wounds to the cow at all.
>>>>> Just "it appeared the cow had been killed by the rock" and also that "the cow
>>>>> then eaten".
>>>>>
>>>>> Yet I heard at the time I bought this that the cow had sustained a mortal
>>>>> injury the injury I recall being described at one point. Why this is not in
>>>>> the document? ... has me thinking something must be missing?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this the only document that discusses the claim of a cow being killed?
>>>>> Because it seems to me people have much more information than is contained in
>>>>> the affidavit. (But I've run up enough against rumors to believe that it's
>>>>> easily possible for the rumors to just be taller tales down the line). Was
>>>>> there a newspaper article in the 70's or anything predating this, or were
>>>>> there any other witnesses besides Juan Dionicio, the mysterious guest who it
>>>>> sounds spent several nights on the good doctor's ranch? I'd really like to
>>>>> know.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kindest wishes
>>>>> Doug
>>>>>
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>>> --
>>> Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more
>>> than standing in a garage makes you a car.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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Received on Mon 21 Nov 2011 05:05:17 PM PST