[meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and with a certain seller.

From: MikeG <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2012 18:46:17 -0500
Message-ID: <CAKBPJW80NAPLbeEX7xV4h3vY9JuWO8r4wMPwQNc79Gsj+nXtJg_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hi Listees,

I received many emails privately from concerned collectors. I think
it is time to reveal what I know and to let the collector public
decide what to do with their specimens that may be impacted by this.

First, I do not have currently, or in the past, any material from this
person. So I have no personal dog in this fight. My motivation is
concern for the integrity of collections and the collector market in
general. One bad apple can make the entire bushel look bad.

As of now, I am acting primarily on my own in revealing this. A
couple of other dealers are aware of the issue, but I will not speak
for them or name drop. They can chime in later if they feel the need.
 Everyone agrees that this person is engaged in some questionable
behavior that calls into question the authenticity of some of the
specimens they sell.

If this person reads this, and they want to respond, please do so. If
we have it wrong, and there is just some misunderstanding at work
here, then I hope the person will speak up on the record and clear
this up. No hard feelings involved - we just want to make sure a
given meteorite is what it is said to be.

eBay seller - galeriacores

website - meteoritefragments.com

I do not know if the two above entities are connected or not. I
stumbled across the second one (meteoritefragments.com) and while
discussing it with another dealer, the issue of the first was raised
(galeriacores).

Galeriacores has been questioned on this List in the past - a search
of the recent archives will show the discussion. It was a month or
two ago. There was also a second issue with this person regarding
mixed up NWA numbers and types - auction descriptions that did not
match the data in the Met Bull. There were also a questionable
specimen of Sutter's Mill that was mentioned.

There is a lot of smoke and red flags here. If you have bought
something obvious or distinctive from this person, you probably have
nothing to worry about - an unclassified NWA sold for aesthetics or
certain easily-identifiable irons. But, if you bought a small crumb
or small specimen of something really rare, then I would be worried.
This person also sells a lot of material that appears to be legitimate
- which would lend cover and credibility to their other sales. So
trying to figure out what is what may prove difficult. But usually
where there is enough smoke, there is fire.

Looking through Galeriacore's feedback profile, there are no negatives
or ticked off customers. Everyone seems happy with their purchases.
But, given the concerns raised here and previously, I would be taking
a hard second look at certain specimens bought from this seller. I
see some List members amongst this person's satisfied customers, and I
see a few collectors who I have sold meteorites to. These people
should take a look at their purchases and make sure everything is in
order.

The meteoritefragments.com website has taken (stolen) images of
meteorites from myself and at least one other well-known dealer. At
least one of the rare specimens listed on that website for sale is
currently owned by another collector - the photo is stolen and the
specimen is actually owned by someone else who was not aware of the
website. Also, several photos are entirely wrong and not the right
type of meteorite. The owner of this website uses a private domain
services that cloaks the identity of the domain registrant, so there
is a generic name, but no actual contact info. There is a name given
on the website and an email address. I tried contacting the person
and received no reply.

That is all. I am sorry this took up so much time, space, and energy.
 Sometimes there is a dark side to meteorite collecting, and dubious
sellers are part of that problem. Those collectors out there looking
for genuine and authentic specimens should be aware of frauds and
likely-frauds. Since I have not personally bought anything from this
person, I cannot say for certain that I was burned. But there are
some troublesome questions surrounding some of this person's
specimens, and these questions need to be answered - here on this
list, or in private with the collectors involved.

If Galeriacores or meteoritefragments.com want to chime in and
straighten things out for the record, then please do. If I am wrong,
I will sincerely apologize.

Best regards,

MikeG





> ----- Original Message -----
> From: MikeG <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Cc:
> Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2012 8:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and
> with a certain seller.
>
> Hi List and Concerned Collectors,
>
> Do not panic. I do not think this is an epic-level scammer of the
> Madoff level. But I want to make sure we have all of our ducks lined
> up into neat row before we call someone out in public.
>
> I will say this - it is someone who has been caused concerns to be
> raised in the recent past on the List. It started some discussion,
> but then the chatter died off. The person continued doing what they
> were doing and may be connected to another shady endeavour recently
> discovered. I know a couple of other collectors and dealers who have
> dealt with this person, and we want to share data and see if it really
> is as bad as it looks.
>
> It may be tomorrow before I have learned anything new or may have
> something public to say.
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
>
>
> On 12/6/12, MikeG <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi List,
>>
>> As a collector first, dealer second, and passionate meteorite nut
>> third, I share the common sentiment that the integrity of the world's
>> meteorite collections is a top priority for all of us. Whether it is
>> a large museum like the Smithsonian or a small micromount collector,
>> it is important that any and all specimens in that collection are
>> genuine and labeled correctly. It is a shame and a disservice to the
>> entire meteorite community (scientific and layperson) when a dealer
>> knowingly misrepresents specimens as something they are not. Whether
>> it's a big whole stone the size of a football, or a tiny Bessey Speck,
>> it is of the utmost importance that the specimen be genuine. If it's
>> billed, sold, and labeled as Tissint Martian, then it damn well better
>> be Tissint Martian. I won't nitpick the weight 1mg or the other,
>> because scales vary. But the material better be what it is sold to
>> be.
>>
>> Secondly, if I am seeing a photo of a specimen for sale on a dealer's
>> website, that photo better represent a specimen that dealer owns and
>> that dealer shot the photo or has permission from the original
>> photographer to use that photo. We've seen dealers who steal photos
>> from other dealers and then try to pull scams and sell specimens they
>> don't actually own. This is not an isolated unique thing - it has
>> happened before, been pointed out on this List in the past, and it is
>> happening again. I will say this, to my knowledge, the guilty party
>> is NOT a List member that is active or known. This person may be a
>> lurker, but they are not known.
>>
>> However, this person does have a website and they do sell on eBay
>> using at least one or more seller accounts. Worse, I have seen other
>> collectors and some dealers leaving good feedback to this dubious
>> seller after purchasing specimens that may be in question now. Some
>> of these people I saw leaving feedback are List members or persons
>> known to List members.
>>
>> To my knowledge, this person is not an IMCA member. But, this person
>> frequently purchases material from List members, known dealers, and
>> IMCA members.
>>
>> I fear and strongly suspect that this person is spreading
>> misrepresented material into many collections across the world, thanks
>> to eBay and the internet. Some of the people who have purchased
>> material from this suspect dealer are good people, people we know, and
>> people who should now be concerned that portions of their collections
>> may be compromised.
>>
>> I am currently conferring with a couple of other honest dealers who
>> have some knowledge of this person and we will alert the collector
>> community when we arrive at a consensus of what exactly is going on,
>> how wide-reaching the damage is, and what we can say/do about it to
>> prevent further damage.
>>
>> Stay tuned.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>>
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Received on Fri 07 Dec 2012 06:46:17 PM PST