[meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay, and with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past

From: Anne Black <impactika_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2012 16:08:04 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <8CFA39F3F9E4A1D-18DC-21AC5_at_webmail-m101.sysops.aol.com>

Thank Bob,
But the link you posted is VERY outdated, please use this one:
And then you can click on any of the links at the top of the page.

And yes I do list the provenance of the pieces I sell right there on my
site. I started doing that a few years ago when very rare specimens
with missing or fraudulent provenance started to show up, people who
have been here a while will remember that. And I have never had any
problems due to that decision.

My "sources" have never complained to me, some of my competitiors did
complain, loudly! but not my sources, and I just bought a collection of
over 700 pieces from a long-time collector with many different sources
(that I do list), some of those pieces are now listed and again no
complaint from the sources.

However I have received many emails thanking me from collectors, I got
another one just this morning!

Conclusion: I will keep on listing the provenances, and I will keep on
asking my sources for their sources too. To me it is simply the right
thing to do.

Anne M. Black
IMPACTIKA at aol.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Loeffler <bobl at peaktopeak.com>
To: meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sat, Dec 8, 2012 11:17 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay,
and with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past

HI all,

I think that anyone who asks an IMCA dealer for provenance of a specimen
should expect to get it. IMCA member dealers should be held to a higher
authority if they want to be respected as IMCA members. I would think
this is part of membership, but I could be wrong (since I'm not a
If IMCA member dealers don't give out provenance when asked for it, this
could be considered deception... which looks bad on them and the IMCA.
maybe I'm missing out on what the IMCA is about. This is what the
first two
sentences on the IMCA home page says:

"The International Meteorite Collectors Association (IMCA Inc.) has one
primary purpose: helping Meteorite Collectors in their search for
Meteorites for their collections and assisting others in helping to
more about meteorites. Whether they are new to the Meteorite World or
knowledgeable, we want all Collectors to buy/trade with confidence from
Members, knowing that every item will be exactly what it is represented

It seems pretty obvious to me. How can we, as buyers, buy WITH
when the seller doesn't provide information when requested? If there
"trade secrets" (e.g. "Exactly where was the specimen found?" when the
finder hasn't disclosed that info), then I understand why a dealer
disclose that info. But provenance should not be considered a trade
I'm not trying to single out Shawn. I've never had any dealings with
him and
I'm sure he is a good person, so I am just saying all of this "in
for all of the meteorite community. If you look at Anne Black's website
(http://www.impactika.com/MetList.htm), you will see that she mentions
provenance for about 95% of her stock.

For those who are worried that a potential buyer will go over a dealer's
head directly to the source, the source person has probably not dealt
the potential buyer (otherwise they would already be in discussions),
the source person will not want to have to deal with a new person
there is a lot of risk when starting up a business rapport with a new

BTW, I don't know Bill and have never dealt with him either, so I'm not
taking his side because of anything personal.

Just my $0.02 worth...


Bob L

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of bill
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2012 11:06 PM
To: photophlow at yahoo.com
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Something is rotten on the web, on eBay,
with a certain seller.... & they try to sell fake lunars in the past


You are a member of the IMCA. I shouldn't have to do homework when I buy
 from you. When I ask for provenance in advance you should cheerfully
it. I never questioned the authenticity of your material. I only asked
assurance prior to making a bid.

Is there really anyone that's going to try and undermine you at the
Maybe, but I'm not one to pulverize micro's and I knew of your sources
before you even considered meteorite collecting. I'll look up our
discussion on ebay if it's still there and let you decide who initiated
rudeness. I believe I have it in a file somewhere.

Seasoned Gratings,
Received on Sat 08 Dec 2012 04:08:04 PM PST

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