[meteorite-list] New BLM Rules

From: Mark Bowling <minador_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:03:43 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <1348689823.33031.YahooMailNeo_at_web160402.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

>From a gold prospecting perspective, mechanized equipment includes motorized equipment, hand-crank equipment and surprisingly?a tiny hand sluice box (which?has no moving parts).? Approved tools are pick, shovel and gold pan.? A magnet stick and metal detector would be considered OK (non-mechanized/mechanical).
?
I would expect it's the same for meteorite hunting equipment.? So any harmless looking wheeled magnet contraptions or any rakes/coils pulled behind an ATV would be excluded.? Bicycles would be also have to stay on an approved trail (no old roads if they don't have a sign).? It doesn't matter how you get to a site, between car or bicycle, as long as you're on approved roads.? Any off road use on Federal Land is a violation - the road has to be signed, which will also communicate which vehicles are allowed on the road.
?
But Adam is right.? Regardless of the meteorite regulations, a site could exclude any item they wish depending on how "sensitive" they determine an area is.? If metal artifacts are present, they could restrict detectors based on that fact (while clearly allowed for meteorite hunting - but too risky to allow since someone could stumble on a tempting artifact).? Which could include a magnet which would also find metal artifacts.
?
This will all be arbitrarily applied by each district.? Consistency in interpretation is possible but not guaranteed.? Each agent will have their own position.? Even if you?are forced to leave and later complain?to a supervisor and they take your side,?it's a hollow victory because your entire trip is very likely ruined.? Most of us have limited days to hunt each year.
?
How I've seen the law enforced,?ATVs would be allowed on a signed road.? Taking it off a signed trail is a violation.? Dry lakes have no trail and probably are considered to be covered with a cryptobiotic crust.
?
With reasonable staff the rules will probably be? flexible.? This is?becoming increasingly?rare these days though.? And even though something lacks common sense, it would talk a lot of time & money (redundant I know) to fight it.
?
I do think enforcement will be difficult, but if you do get caught, you?very likely will?be in a world of hurt.


________________________________
From: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
To: Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules



The way I see it, the new rules are so poorly written that they can be interpreted any way a BLM agent sees fit.? I obtain a permit to search Ivanpah Dry Lake every September and was told by the Needles office that metal detectors and magnets on a stick are not allowed and that no motorized vehicles were allowed beyond the staging point.?? It is interesting that this is the first year my Ivanpah use permit has not been renewed.

Happy Hunting,

Adam




----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Mulgrew <mikestang at gmail.com>
To: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>; Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules

Adam, you wrote: ..."You can no longer use four-wheelers, off-road
vehicles or bicycles to aid in your search because they are motorized
or mechanical."

I believe you are misinterpreting the following statement from the BLM's memo:
"Only surface collection of meteorites using non-motorized and
non-mechanical equipment is allowed (metal detectors may be used);"

This statement refers to the actual act of collecting the meteorite,
not how you arrived at the location.? Extrapolating your line of
thinking we could not use an automobile to get to the hunt location
either, nor would you be able to wear glasses or use a radio or gps.
The intent of this statement is to keep people from using backhoes,
bulldozers, and steam shovels to dig up public lands; this advisory
memo does not supersede other approved land uses for the area you are
it.? If it is legal to ride an ATV or a bicycle where you are hunting
for meteorites then using your ATV or bicycle in your hunt is ok, too.
I seriously doubt anyone could call a magnet on a stick "mechanical"
and have it hold any water (although protestors can no longer have
sticks to hold their signs up because the sticks are considered
"weapons"...).

So far the BLM staff I have spoken with think this memo is much ado
about nothing, and I hope that perception sticks until our community
can work with the BLM to produce a policy that is fair to everyone
involved.

-Michael in so. Cal.

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 7:49 AM, Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I think you have to turn over the entire meteorite if it weighs more than 10 pounds or leave it where it sits to the
> benefit of no one.? You can no longer use four-wheelers, off-road
> vehicles or bicycles to aid in your search because they are motorized or mechanical.? A magnet on a stick could also be considered mechanical
> and this was mentioned to me by a BLM agent before these new rules were
> even in place besides it would not be a casual search if you are using
> tools. Giving it to a friend to sell will only result in getting him/her in trouble. The barter clause covers this.? Just like taxes, all of the loop-holes or breaks have nearly been closed.
>
>
> I noticed that dealers are becoming smart and new eBay listing of U.S.
> meteorites possibly found on federal land has dropped off considerable
> including Franconia, Gold Basin, Sacramento Wash and some Nevada dry
> lake finds.? I have a feeling there will be some busts soon.? It will be interesting to see what happens in Tucson at the show.
>
> I think the best advice is to stay away from the media on U.S. finds and
> lay low.? We do not need any more attention at this critical juncture
> were are entire hobby is at stake!? It may be too late.
>
>
> Happy Hunting,
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>
> To: "hall at meteorhall.com" <hall at meteorhall.com>
> Cc: Meteorite Central <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 7:16 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list]? New BLM Rules
>
> Hello Listers
>
> I know this topic has been reworked and then some but this is what I think.
> I am not a hunter yet :) ( Being in NYC isnt the best place to hunt on land)
> but from what I gather is this from the BLM "law" for the casual collector
> that finds and "meteorite"
>
>
> Casual Collection:? Meteorites may be casually collected (i.e., free
> and without a permit), pursuant to BLM?s regulations at 43 CFR 8365.1-5. In
> accordance with those regulations:
>? ?? * Collection of meteorites is limited to certain public lands. Public lands
> closed to casual collection include: developed recreation sites, certain units
> of the National Landscape Conservation System, areas excluded from casual
> collection in a Land Use Plan such as an Area of Critical Environmental Concern
> (ACEC) or a wilderness area, and areas closed by supplemental regulations;
>? ?? * Individuals are limited to collecting what can be easily hand-carried, up to
> a maximum of ten pounds of meteorites per individual, per year;
>? ?? * Only surface collection of meteorites using non-motorized and non-mechanical
> equipment is allowed (metal detectors may be used); and
>? ?? * Casually-collected meteorites are for personal use only, and may not be
> bartered or sold for commercial purposes.
>
> http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/info/regulations/Instruction_Memos_and_Bulletins/national_instruction/2012/IM_2012-182.html
>
> Well lets say I find a meteorite :) on BML land.... I give it to a friend for free. Now that I gave it to them,
> they can do what ever they want with the meteorite :) its out of my hands and now its no longer in
> the restrictions of the BML rules on meteorite collecting. If they want, they can sell it, keep it, or donate it.
>
> Now to the second problem. Let say you find a 20lbs stony meteorite, well you break it up and have 2 friends come with
> you and then you piece it back together :). For those of you that like to keep meteorite whole, so be it, but I see that
> having it whole does nothing but keep it in one place and not having it be shared with all the meteorite collectors. But if its an iron,
> well thats a different story and and I guess you put it back in the dirt and hide it and get a permit or bring a saw :)
>
> At any rate these new laws, rules, regulations make it harder to find meteorites and in the long run can harm the advancement of science. If anything, I think BML
> could implement if you find a meteorite on the land, at least 10% of the find has to be donated to that state, which could be allocated to universities, school or museums. I think that would be a win win and would guaranty the continual study of meteorites and how they made made us :)
>
> Shawn Alan
> IMCA 1633
> eBay Store
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633nyc/m.html?
> http://www.meteoritefalls.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [meteorite-list] New BLM Rules - Update - Arizona
> Jim Wooddell jimwooddell
> at gmail.com
> Mon Sep 24 19:07:45 EDT 2012
>? ?? * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Display
> Cabinets
>? ?? * Next message: [meteorite-list] Curiosity Finishes
> Close Inspection of Rock Target
>? ?? * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject
> ] [ author ]
> ________________________________
>
> I've been working on understanding the new BLM rules all day
> and have
> some information to share....
> I am ONLY speaking about Arizona
> and what I gathered today after
> several conversations with the BLM.
>
> 1. Institutions like ASU, NAU, UofA can apply for permits on a
> statewide level in the name of Science to gather fresh falls where the
> hunters would be "giving", not trading
> meteorites from fresh falls. This
> would be done in advance and
> hunters supporting the instititions, not for
> profit, would not be
> delayed because of the permits.
>
> 2. Permits are
> going to take anywhere from 60 to 185 days to complete
> for profit seekers.
>
> 3. At this time, ok to hunt meteorites at Franconia in the Warm
> Spring Wilderness based on current Land Use Plans.
>
>
> Now, this is
> all subject to change. I specifically talked about the
> statewide permits and
> it sounded like this would not be any problem.
> It would take the Meteoritic
> departments to do this if they would be
> willing. I sure hope they do look
> into this and do it.
>
> 4. Hunters that sell meteorites (dealers) will have
> to go through the
> permit process.
>
>
> I am sure, More to come...
>
>
> --
> Jim Wooddell
> jimwooddell at
> gmail.com
> 928-247-2675
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>? ?? * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Display
> Cabinets
>? ?? * Next message: [meteorite-list] Curiosity Finishes
> Close Inspection of Rock Target
>? ?? * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject
> ] [ author ]
> ________________________________
>
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Received on Wed 26 Sep 2012 04:03:43 PM PDT