[meteorite-list] sharp protrusion from an iron meteorite

From: Martin Altmann <altmann_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 14:52:22 +0100
Message-ID: <001201ce174d$3fa03e30$bee0ba90$_at_de>

Hi Jason,

no offense, but only a remark.
You're always pretty fast, when it's about blaming sellers to be dishonest
or fraudulent.
In my personal opinion that doesn't fit directly well together with some
offerings on your webpage.
For instance some of the Martians,
there it is not directly clear for the reader,
whether the specimens, which you reckon to be paired to "black beauty" - NWA
7034 are parts of the original stones, which were numbered or whether they
will be still classified and will receive an own NWA number or whether they
were told by a scientist to be paired and remain unnumbered or whether it's
your personal opinion based on your experience.

Same to some extent with the obviously unclassified stones, where you use
the number NWA 2975 (which was one single stone) in the menu side bar.

In my eyes that is problematical.
It seems to be a classical "self-pairing", which should be a no-go for
IMCA-members.

But especially it's somewhat not so fine for the not yet so experienced
collectors,
as they often are not aware, that such unclassified stones will have later
in case they want to swap or trade them once, do have a remarkably lower
collector's and trade value - thus a lower monetary value than their
officially recognized and numbered comrades.

Neither the latter is evident for the na?ve beginner, if he reads your
prices.
The unclassified ones, which you relate to NWA 7034 cost around 10,000$/g on
your pages and also the supposed NWA 2975-pairing are not different in price
than the specimens sold by more professional collectors and dealers, who
took the time and costs to get their share of that meteorite properly
classified and numbered.

I think, it would be more respectable and fair towards the collectors and
laypeople (and to your seller colleagues), if you would make more
unmistakably clear, that those stones are possibly paired to the numbers you
give there,
based on your personal opinion as a non-scientist
and perhaps to adjust the prices. (for the rookies, unclassified
self-guesses have always to be cheaper than official numbers from the
Bulletin, because, se above, they do have a lower value in the usances of
the meteorite scene and because they have lower costs for the seller, cause
for a classification you have to supply the institute with a share of 20% or
20grams of the meteorite for free and sometimes you have to pay a part of
the classification costs too).

And last but not least, that would give more weight to your words, when you
doubt the reliability of other sellers in public.
(Take for instance the case now, where it seems for you not enough
authentication,
when the seller of the probable pseudo-Chelyabinsk told, that his source
assured, that they are authentic. - with the 2975 and 7034 you did just the
same, didn't you?).

As told, no offence intended,
only a suggestion for an improvement.

(Remark to Uruacu vs. Campo. Uruacu has also much more troilite blobs than
Campo).

Best!
Martin


  

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von jason
utas
Gesendet: Freitag, 1. M?rz 2013 05:32
An: Meteorite-list
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] sharp protrusion from an iron meteorite

Hello Adam, All,

Actually, Uruacu does appear to be distinct from Campo del Cielo.
Uruacu appears to be a much older meteorite that has weathered in different
conditions, and many individuals show cohenite when cut -- a mineral I have
never seen in Campo del Cielo. Generally speaking, Campos run the full
range from freshly-fusion crusted to rusty lumps, and everything in-between.
But, Campo fell within the past ~5,000 years, so we're talking about rapid
weathering in a wet environment (also why it's a ruster). Uruacu fell in a
drier area, and most individuals exhibit a much more uniform covering of
shale that does not readily flake off due to rusting. They seem to have
fallen much longer ago, and are generally more weathered due to the fact
that they've been around for longer. Uruacu generally resists rusting
better.

It would be like comparing Sikhote Alin to Henbury. No Henburies I know of
rust, but, by and large, they're not as fresh as most Sikhotes. But some
Sikhotes appear to have fallen into swampy areas and look pretty bad -- and
rust. It's hard to mix the two up.

The trouble is that I've also seen Campos sold as Uruacu, which complicates
things. Uruacu is a very old fall. Even some reputable dealers have been
selling specimens of "new Campo" (crust,
regmaglypts) as Uruacu. Very different. I assume this is due to dishonest
suppliers.

There's a stunning, fairly large Uruacu for sale at the moment. Not mine,
but I wonder if this will bring it out of the woodwork.

Regards,
Jason

> From: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
> Date: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 2:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] sharp protrusion from an iron meteorite
> To: Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>
>
>
> Isn't Baygorria another meteorite with a fake provenance? Basically a
> cleaned up Campo with a delaminated section protruding after a
> not-so-careful makeover. I would just tell him to seek first aid so
> he doesn't catch the dreaded Lawrencite disease.
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Randy Korotev <korotev at wustl.edu>
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Cc:
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:41 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] sharp protrusion from an iron meteorite
>
> I recieved a well prepared letter from a fellow with a question that I
> can't begin to answer. Maybe someone on the list has seen this kind
> of thing before.
>
> He bought a Baygorria (Iron, IAB complex) from a dealer 3 years ago.
> He picked it up recently to find a metal protrusion sticking out of
> the thing that was sharp enough to prick his thumb.
>
> Here's a jpg of his scanned photo.
>
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/baygorria.jpg
>
> What's happened here?
>
> Randy Korotev
> St. Louis
>
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Received on Sat 02 Mar 2013 08:52:22 AM PST