[meteorite-list] Another warning re sales to Italy

From: joachim at jta.de <joachim_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2016 10:05:43 +0000
Message-ID: <20160726100543.Horde.jLHEtQjFgULc47uLP72hzKV_at_webmail.jta.de>


Italy has more than 60 Million people. Most are honest and kind. Maybe
you have problems getting money via a lawywer and a court but it is
the same when I sell something to the US ( or Japan or to the moon )
To say not to sell something to italy is if I would say all New
Yorkers or Inhabitants of california are gangsters. Just check every
person, mail or phone but please do not generalize in such a way.

Greetings from Germany ( where are also nice people, thick ones, thin
ones, idiots, intelligent people and all other kind of humang beings. )

Zitat von Michael Blood via Meteorite-list
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>:

> Hi Doug,
> I am glad to hear your dealings with this individual have been
> Positive. I cannot say the same. However, after denying he refused
> To pay the shipment (this sounds like a refusal to me:
> " So I must pay 110$ for shipment... More other 150 or more for Italian
> custom with fedex..
> No is impossible pay so much for Henbury.
> Sorry
> Davide" )
> he finally did send me almost all the remainder of the shipping
> cost.
> I still will never sell anything to anyone in Italy again due to all
> the reports on their postal system and on individuals, including this
> One (see Bessey post).
> Again, happy your dealings have been more positive.
> Michael
> On 7/24/16 4:28 PM, "MexicoDoug" <mexicodoug at aol.com> wrote:
>> Thanks Captain B,
>> As we say, "A bad negotiation is better than a good fight."
>> 99% your customer is not the one you thought. That suspicion is
>> hurting you.
>> You can Google the customer and find out one by his name has done a
>> couple of
>> exhibitions for Emilia-Romagna, lectures and belongs to a local astronomical
>> society, gives advice on meteorites even including one case where
>> there was a
>> shipping question in which his reply was to work with the Seller to resolve
>> it. Try one more time, maybe a show of goodwill above and beyond what is
>> required offer to split the $60, and do it face to face by calling
>> dado_sanna
>> on Skype ...
>> Next time just collect shipping costs up front ... rather than exposing
>> yourself. I feel for your customer's situation, having been in a
>> similar one
>> for many years because of the unfortunate state of the local postal service
>> and the rampant corruption and pilfering throughout the system. I hope you
>> will reconsider supporting our enthusiastic Italian (Brasilian, Russian and
>> Mexican) friends so as to do a part in giving them access to reputable
>> meteorite sellers.
>> Although your customer's expectations were misplaced, it is still a case of
>> misunderstanding that could have been prevented - even if that
>> meant two trips
>> to FedEx if it was too difficult to calculate the shipping cost yourself.
>> In the case of Italy, ask if they can cough up a shipping address to a
>> different EU nation to initially receive the shipment and from
>> where they can
>> be responsible to reship to the Italian address. The situation is far less
>> problematic if the parcel arriving in Italy originates in the current
>> Eurozone, vs. the US and Canada which at this moment happen to be
>> outside the
>> walls surrounding Byzantium. It will likely get their much faster
>> too, so it
>> can benefit them.
>> While this may not make sense to many people who take for granted less
>> problematical postal services, or don't care about the little saintly
>> collector, speaking from personal experience and cravings,
>> sometimes there are
>> specimens that are "must have" and being told "NO! I don't ship to
>> X" can be
>> a huge depressant.
>> If the collector is conscientious about their situation, they can
>> just adjust
>> their purchases accordingly and save up for the moments that are truly
>> special, and better yet, get a helping hand from other sympathetic European
>> collectors. I responded to this thread because too often I had the
>> "We don't
>> ship to X", door slammed in my face. It never happened with meteorites but
>> was a problem with larger companies. You did a nice thing, btw, and I don't
>> think you will end up burnt in the end since the collector had a
>> misunderstanding and I am sure he will want to correct it in a positive
>> manner.
>> As for Italy, firm cash up front, insurance (U-pic or InsurePost), and check
>> registered FC mail rules on commercial sales to see what's permitted and
>> what's not ...
>> Kindest wishes
>> Doug
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michael Blood <mlblood at cox.net>
>> To: MexicoDoug <mexicodoug at aol.com>; Meteorite List
>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Sun, Jul 24, 2016 2:31 am
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another warning re sales to Italy
>> Hi Doug,
>> Thanks for the kind words. However, I have saved all
>> The emails and believe me, there was absolutely no confusion
>> Re shipping - -clarified clearly (twice) that if Fed EX were
>> less than $50 I would refund him the difference and if it
>> were more than $50 he would have to agree to paypal me
>> the difference.
>> He stated I should not have put the "real value" on the shipment -
>> AFTER I had sent it - When Fed Ex turned out to be more, then
>> He complained he would have to pay the import fee and wouldn't
>> Pay any more for the shipping.
>> Kind and gentle is always best and I tried that for several
>> Posts to no avail whatever.
>> No, this is a clear cut case of being ripped off. I suspect it is
>> Our old "friend" as his approach is nearly identical and his English
>> Is similarly distorted. But whether it is or not the results are identical.
>> I, too, like to think people are basically honest and live up to
>> Their commitments and I do deal with people that way and the vast
>> Majority of people in the meteorite community are that way.
>> Also, I do not believe for a second this is "typical of Italians" -
>> only two - and possibly only one - have/has acted this way. Every
>> Country has both the saintly and the cur.
>> Good to hear from you, Doug,
>> Michael
>> On 7/23/16 10:32 PM, "MexicoDoug" <mexicodoug at aol.com> wrote:
>>> Michael,
>>> How discouraging, as if doing what you love wasn't already a labor of love.
>>> Your customer appears to be a dedicated collector, exhibitor, lecturer, and
>>> dealer (involved with meteorites and as using them as raw materials for
>>> selling trinkets and watch dials, including to school children). You could
>>> double-check if it is not a miscommunication from your message exchange
>>> defining who was supposed to pay for what. The immediate problem was not
>>> Italy, as much as the expensive, secure shipping cost which you understood
>>> was
>>> to be paid by him as it sounds like he received the meteorite and
>>> you have a
>>> tracking receipt.
>>> Or, next time you are in Rimini, stop by this hair salon and go collect if
>>> the
>>> friendly approach doesn't pan out. Maybe settle for a seafood
>>> risotto. I'd
>>> make an appointment first and bring a bottle of wine _at_ (+39)3485447938. He
>>> really doesn't seem like a scammer!
>>> Kindest wishes
>>> Doug
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list
>>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> To: Michael Blood <mlblood at cox.net>; Meteorite Mailing List
>>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Sent: Sat, Jul 23, 2016 9:37 pm
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another warning re sales to Italy
>>> Why do people ignore warnings? Italy is notorious for
>>> scams and stolen packages.
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> On Jul 23, 2016, at 6:36 PM, Michael Blood via Meteorite-list
>>>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> You all may recall that several years ago multiple
>>>> Dealers warned against sales to Italy. It seams at
>>>> Least one buyer was claiming not to have received
>>>> Shipments that were verified, not to have received
>>>> Money that was sent him, etc.
>>>> Unfortunately, I failed to head warnings about
>>>> Shipping to Italy. A different Italian contacted me (Or
>>>> At least one using a different name and email) and
>>>> I explained even Registered Mail seems to fail to
>>>> guarantee delivery in Italy but I somehow allowed
>>>> him to talk me into a Fed Ex shipment of a specimen.
>>>> I agreed, providing he send $50 shipping and agree
>>>> to pay any additional amount Fed Ex might charge.
>>>> Perhaps it is the same fellow from several years ago
>>>> Using a different name (he was so good at that Art could
>>>> Not keep him off the list because he would just join again
>>>> Using a different name and email). So, beware of:
>>>> "Davide Urbinati" <urbinati.davide at gmail.com>
>>>> Even though I scanned the receipt and sent it to him
>>>> He refused to pay the $59.79 Fed Ex charged me. So, I am
>>>> Out that $.
>>>> Believe me, I will never ship to Italy again.
>>>> Better luck to all of you,
>>>> Michael Blood
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Received on Tue 26 Jul 2016 06:05:43 AM PDT

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