[meteorite-list] WR Gallery Delay U.S. World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

From: Ann Cain <Gfndit_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2016 23:29:22 +0000
Message-ID: <BLUPR15MB0052E836FB1D4191F5F8DE6CD9020_at_BLUPR15MB0052.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>

John A. Shea,


That email was sent to me privately and I responded privately and only to those members that Jason Utas originally sent it to. I gave Jason Utas the right to go public and debate the meteoritic topics/ issues only if he wanted to do so.

What you did was very disrespectful.



Sincerely,


Glyn Howard

(Yes, I use the account my sister Ann Cain set-up here on the Meteorite List for me. We share the account.)




Sent from Outlook
 
   




From: Meteorite-list <meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com> on behalf of Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 5:43 PM
To: Art Jones; metlist
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WR Gallery Delay ? U.S. World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery
?
To the Metlist Admin(s),

With respect, why are these people (Ann Cain, Glyn Howard) not blocked from the metlist yet??

This is clearly a scam, or the work of foolish people who refuse to listen to reason. Either way, we should not all be forced to receive their emails for years on end when they are clearly not representing an actual interest of any kind in meteoritics.

In order to protect the integrity of the Metlist as a valuable resource to the meteorite community, I respectfully request that you remove any emails associated with Ann Cain and Glyn Howard from the metlist.

Sincerely,
John A. Shea MD
IMCA 3295



Sent using the mail.com mail app

On 7/30/16 at 4:24 PM, Ann Cain wrote:

> Jason,
>
>
> I haven't checked this email account in many months. It's now summer time and I have time to respond respectfully and I will do so.
>
>
> Why not discuss this in public openly? Post your original email to me on the Meteorite List and I will address all your concerns one by one openly and publicly, and we will debate it.
>
>
> I can say you are wrong and I can prove it.
>
>
>
> I haven't embarrassed anyone. I've been very respectful. I have a right to disagree, as do you, and to provide the evidence.
>
>
>
> You do not know the background history of this discovery. You do not know the several very well known (famous even) meteoriticists involved, who also know the truth. As well, a very well known (famous) thin-section technician who knows and does brilliant work. Anne knows him very well. The thin section technician wants to stay out of the fray, he's done nothing wrong and has been very honorable and very professional the entire time working with me. I would like to continue using his very professional services. He's a great guy. Professional. Straight up.
>
>
> But you should also know Scientists are human and have human feelings, and failings, and competition and professional jealousy can and does occur in science. I provided a link in the Meteorite List discussion for such a study that validates that it does indeed happen at times in science.
>
>
> We are talking about a few scientists in the meteoritics world, not more. They know who they are. I know them and they know me. I know what happened when we met, I know what they did. I have all the emails for our communications. I can instantly prove they misrepresented the truth and did so purposefully. It's called "stone-walling" among other things. When I told them I wouldn't tell them the discovery site until contracts "with the powers that be" were agreed to, then all kinds of purposeful misinformation and misrepresentation on their part occurred towards me. That is unethical and unprofessional behavior. I already knew they were meteorites before coming to them for their services. I already knew they were achondrites. I did not know how to prove the Parent Body at the time. But I can do all of that now. Now I have that knowledge.? It is not my intention to embarrass anyone publicly. I want them to admit their unprofessional behavior privately to me and admit their mistakes. The matter between us w
ill be over without the community ever knowing the embarrassing history or their identity. I'm a forgiving person.
>
>
> By the way, I worked with many geologists, analysts, and a very well known private petrology whole rock analysis company with a science research department with a long experience in meteorite analysis, all who didn't play any unethical games or act unprofessionally that helped and guided me at key moments in my study. To them I'm very grateful and in time they will get their due credit when the story can go completely public.
>
>
> The discovery is what it is. You are wrong. I can prove it. Let's debate it publicly and openly.
>
>
> There are many people who have contacted me privately that know the evidence is true and real. My website is basic and simple, not spectacular, but it fits my needs. I'm receiving traffic from all over the world and many images and articles are being copied and saved.
>
>
> It wasn't a coincidence that when I went to the ACLU for support for my discovery that "TPTB" changed the collecting laws "out of the blue" within one month of that detailed email that I sent to the ACLU describing my discovery and reaching out to them for their legal support. The original PhD meteorite analysts who work at well known Universities that I went to for help, also do government contracts. They know I know what I have. I know they know what I have. People talk. There are no coincidences in this case. One of these analysts even offered to have another look at the GSA and GSB specimens knowing I now knew full well what they are and I could now prove it and prove the PB. I said "No."? He had his chance.
>
>
> Its my discovery. I can do the initial analysis and do the initial classification, and I have. Another team of analysts can reconfirm. That's how science works. I'm not giving away my original and first credit for my discovery, analysis, and classification. Another meteoritics science team can reconfirm and they will in time.
>
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Glyn Howard
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jason utas <jasonutas at gmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 7:11 PM
> To: Ann Cain; Art Jones; Impactika; Galactic Stone; Michael Mulgrew; Bigjohn Shea
> Subject: WR Gallery Delay ? U.S. World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery
>
> Glyn,
> You have derided a number of fairly educated and experienced list-members.? As a studying cosmochemistry PhD with about two decades' worth of experience in meteorites, I will list some facts plainly.
>
> I have looked over the evidence you offer on your websites.
>
> You note "undulose extinction in quartz" as evidence that your samples have been shocked.? But undulatory extinction is common in terrestrial quartz -- and not due to shock.? See here<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undulose_extinction> and here<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpTENXNj8es>.? Note that this is a very common attribute of quartz; most rocks contain some quartz that exhibits undulatory extinction in XPL.? Anyone who had picked up a book on petrology would have seen this covered in the first or second chapter.
>
> Your samples don't appear to show any evidence of undulatory extinction in olivine, as would be needed to place your rocks on this diagram<http://www.gfoundit-mars.com/ImpactShockMetTables2.jpg>.? The fact that you have ignored the text stating that the observed undulatory extinction must be in olivine is telling; whoever called your rock "S3" had no idea what they were doing.? Olivine and quartz don't show similar shock features at similar pressures.? They are different minerals with different basic physical properties.
>
> The "planar deformation features" you have noted in quartz appear to be indigenous crystallographic features that do not completely transect any grains.? This<http://minerals.cr.usgs.gov/gips/images/colormed.gif> is what shocked quartz looks like.? Note the vibrant mosaicism due to physical strain stored within the grain.? This is conceptually similar to the optical distortion you can observe in Prince Rupert's Drops<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Rupert%27s_Drop> in polarized light.? The linked image of shocked quartz also shows abundant obvious parallel lines as a result of shock (also, see here<http://www.sail2ak.com/ray/classes/sem/final_project.html>).? There are no such features in anything on your website.? This<http://www.gfoundit-mars.com/GSAXPL40XEnlPDFs2.jpg> (and this<http://www.gfoundit-mars.com/GSB2XPL100XPlanFracPFs1.jpg>) is not shocked quartz, and the "undulose extinction" you show on your website is typical terrestrial metamorphism.? We can refer back to the video<https://www.yo
utube.com/watch?v=HpTENXNj8es> I linked to above, showing XPL undulatory extinction of quartz in granite.? Also note the faint crystallographically oriented lines partially crossing several of the grains in the video.? That's not shocked quartz.? Those are regular crystal features that you would find in nearly every quartz grain on Earth.
>
> This<http://www.gfoundit-mars.com/ThinSectGSB2EviArt6.jpg> isn't amphibole.? It's calcite<http://www.geo.arizona.edu/geo3xx/geo306_mdbarton/classonly/306%20Web%20Materials/306_Lecture041122_files/image084.gif>.? Which reflects metamorphism or hydrothermal alteration.? Again, a common feature you would see in an ordinary terrestrial rock.
>
> Your depictions of "toasting" and "decorative PDFs" are likewise misconstrued.
>
> This image<http://www.gfoundit-mars.com/GSAXPL100XDecorPDFs2.jpg> most likely shows a dusty plagioclase grain with twinning that you mistakenly label as a "PDF in quartz."? Note the complete lack of linear features throughout the grain -- except for the one lighter band you mark here<http://www.gfoundit-mars.com/GSAXPL100XDecorPDFs1.jpg>.? That band is far too wide to be a typical PDF, and is instead a normal twinning plane, probably in plagioclase (not quartz).? Since the two exhibit similar levels of birefringence, they are often mixed up by petrology students.
>
> There is no "toasting" in this image<http://www.gfoundit-mars.com/GSAXPL40XShMeltToast1.jpg>.? Those are normal dirty, fractured mineral grains that you would find in ~any metamorphic rock, most sedimentary rocks, and many igneous rocks.? The "shock melt veins" pictured contain abundant light and green mineral grains, so they cannot be quenched shock-melt or glass, which would be isotropic (uniformly black in XPL).? They appear to be minerals deposited along simple fractures during metamorphism, like epidote, etc.? Very common in terrestrial rocks.
>
> You place your rocks on a diagram of igneous Martian rocks, but they would fit just as well on a normal terrestrial diagram: here<https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Petrology_Igneous.jpg>.? You also mention that you used the "Michel-Levy Method" to determine your rock's bulk FeO/MnO ratios.? The Michel-Levy Method is used to determine (very roughly) the composition of plagioclase, based on its optical extinction.? Nothing else.? In other words, that claim / statement is nonsense.
>
> Your macroscopic evidence is no better.? That<http://www.gfoundit-mars.com/GSBEviArt1.jpg> looks nothing like fusion crust.? That rock is a typical water-worn pebble with some desert varnish.? Take it from a geologist with almost two decades 'in meteorites.'
>
> I don't know where to begin on this image<http://www.gfoundit-mars.com/BikkurimEviArt3.jpg>.? It looks like a normal terrestrial rock that has been weathered in a desert environment for an extended period of time.? Nothing described in the caption is visible in the photo.? The caption also seems to suggest that even relatively small meteorites experience "shock" when they reach the Earth's surface.? This is one of several common misconceptions that people have regarding what transpires when meteorites hit the ground.
>
> I did not observe any evidence on your website that appeared to accurately suggest that your rocks were meteorites, shocked in any way, or from any body other than Earth.
>
> ----------
>
> As Carl Sagan said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."? You have made extraordinary claims, but the evidence you have put forth does not corroborate them.? Instead, it suggests that your rocks are typical ~igneous rocks from Earth.
>
> I can't stress this enough.? The evidence you have put forth literally refutes the idea that your specimens are either shocked, or meteorites.? The photos and thin section images suggest that you have found an area with ordinary, unshocked, generally silicic volcanic rocks.? These rocks make up a substantial portion of Earth's surface.? There is not one shred of evidence in everything you have written and/or posted that suggests that your rocks are shocked, or not from Earth.? Or that they might be from Mars.? On the contrary, the evidence suggests that you do not understand how to identify even common minerals in a polarizing microscope, and that you are not familiar with diagnostic shock features in minerals.? Any geologist would say as much.? Perhaps with more tact.
>
> John Cleese has a viral video circulating that makes an astute observation: for a person to understand what they do not know, they first need to begin to understand what they do know.? The fact that you would attempt to identify minerals and rare mineral features without first working to obtain a basic understanding of birefringence, or how to discriminate between common minerals or mineral features in a microscope, speaks to this.? Your website describes things that many people with college-level geology degrees never even see in labs.? The problem is that you have never seen them, either.? You do not have a good frame of reference.? Based on the terms you have used on your website, some of which are unusual even in literature, it looks as though you have perused the photos on this website<http://www.impact-structures.com/shock-metamorphism-page/> and copied many of the written terms to describe features in your specimens that only crudely resemble their real counterparts.? That's not how you do scien
ce.
>
> Most (all?) folks on the Meteorite-List would be ecstatic to hear of a new meteorite from Mars, the Moon, or anywhere else.? They would be lining up to buy a piece.? But your claims are not well founded, your rocks look nothing like meteorites, inside or out, and there's simply nothing to corroborate your extraordinary hypothesis.? Instead of sending your specimens to a lab that analyses meteorites, you've taken some photos through a microscope and have made some incorrect interpretations of what is pictured.
>
> Amazingly enough (and this almost never happens), your photos are actually good enough for someone with a decent knowledge of geology/meteorites to rightly conclude that your rocks aren't shocked.? Or meteorites.? You have posted enough actual photographic and mineralogical evidence to conclusively show that your hypothesis is wrong.
>
> You also ridiculed various people on the list based on their apparent lack of academic credentials, over an extended period of time.? A number of them have been familiar with meteorites for years, if not decades.? Your insulting responses to their input is...ignorant.? Especially in light of the fact that you have no credentials or experience of your own.? In other words, they are still more qualified than you.? You owe them an apology, and should respect their opinions.
>
> Please take a step back and reevaluate.
>
> I have cc'd most of the people who have written something of substance on this thread.? We have spent enough of the list's time on this.? Art - you might take action.
>
> Jason
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Ann Cain via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com<mailto:meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>> wrote:
> Anne Black,
>
>
> I would really be careful about making statements that just aren?t true and are meant to belittle.
>
>
> You sell meteorites. You deal meteorites. You provide a very good service for the world-wide meteorite community, but do you do the science of meteoritics? Do you know how to verify a meteorite? Can you classify a meteorite? Can you verify/prove the Parent Body for Achondrites?
>
>
> I can. You will be proven wrong.
>
>
> We?ve met. We talked for a while many years ago in Tucson. I was there in your temporary sales shop. The master technician who makes your high quality hand crafted double-polished meteorite thin-sections that you sell also made my thin-sections. He?s the best no doubt about it. I don?t want to see him stop his great craft. There?s not another like him. If it wasn?t for his brilliantly made thin-sections, I wouldn?t have made the US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery I made. His work allowed me to prove it. This world class technician knows.? He knows.
>
>
> All GSA and GSB Mars Meteorite thin-sections were made by this master technician. As a result, not only was I able to prove previously the megascopic on-site evidence in the field proving meteoritic origin, and the megascopic evidence proving, fusion crust, orientation, regmaglypts, drip-lines, melt accumulate etc., but due to these well-crafted hand polished thin-sections I was able to prove the microscopic evidence of impact shock metamorphism at the mineral grain level: undulose extinction, planar fractures, planar deformation features (PDFs), decorative PDFs, shock melt veins and pockets, mosaicism, Plagioclase ---> Maskelynite, and Quartz ---> Coesite ---> Stishovite, high bi-refrigence, thetomorphs ---> incipient vaporization ---> vesicles and round vesicles, impact shock melt (localized), impact shock imbedded grains or blebs of metals, Fe-oxides or Goethite, minerals, or globules from the original impactor, and micro impact shock effects within opaque Fe-oxide grains (which I?m in the process of
 studying and which seems to be an in-described phenomenon and very unique.) The identified shock stage for GSA is (S4) and GSB is (S5). All this proves they are meteorites.
>
>
> Also these high quality hand polished thin-sections have resulted in a new discovery in terms of impact-shock metamorphism effects on FeO grains within Mars meteorites at the microscopic level. When all is said and done, this new microscopic opaque FeO grain impact-shock metamorphism effect will have to be named after myself and this world class thin-section technician, and it should be called ? ___________ - _______ pattern.? I discovered these opaque standing in positive relief Ni enriched lamellae within the FeO grains only as a result of these high quality hand polished thin-sections. Without these well-made thin-sections I wouldn?t have been able to see these patterns. Once I discovered them, then I called and asked the thin section technician to look, and he found them too. This effect, this pattern in micro-grains of FeOs are not Widmanstatten pattern. They are not Martinization. This is a new Mars meteoritic effect/pattern due to impact-shock metamorphism within opaque grains of FeOs.
>
> http://www.gfoundit-mars.com/GSB3XPLPPinc400XNiEnrichLam1.jpg
>
>
>
> In addition, with these very high quality double polished thin-sections, it is possible the do optical mineralogy and using the results from whole rock oxide analysis for bulk FeO/MnO ration vs. % Anorthite, using the Michel-Levy Method (an optical mineralogy method), the Parent Body can be determined between Mars, Earth, Asteroid 4 Vesta, Moon, and Angrites. The Parent Body is Mars.
>
>
> Then the geochemistry evidence comes from the whole rock oxide analysis data from private industry company that is very professional, well respected, and a very well-known lab used by many University geology departments. From this data the igneous rock classification can be made, as well as many of the tests that verify/prove the Parent Body origin of the Achondrite meteorite. The results of all the following 8 tests prove the Parent Body is Mars:? bulk FeO/MnO ration vs. % Anorthite using the Michel-Levy Method (an optical mineralogy method), Mg/Si (wt. ratio) vs. Al/Si (wt. ratio), ppm K vs. ppm La graph, K/La vs. La (ppm) graph, MnO (wt.%) vs. FeO (wt.%) graph, K2O (wt.%) vs. La (ppm) graph, Cr (ppm) vs. Mg # graph; GSA/vfcl, GSB/vfcl, vfcl vs. REE (g/t) proves GSA and GSB match the same PB. Together all of these tests verify/prove the Parent Body is Mars.
>
>
> GSA and GSB are 2 key type sample representative specimens from the meteorite discovery site. All the other 1000s of fragments are from the same meteorite fall event and discovery site footprint. Some of these fragments are bigger in mass than the famous Zagami Mars meteorite.
>
>
> http://www.gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSA.html
>
> http://www.gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSB.html
>
>
>
>
> They are what they are, Mars meteorites. The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery is a reality. The World-wide meteoritics community better start getting used to the idea.
>
>
>
>
> Glyn Howard
>
>
>
>
> Recall: Both my sister Ann Cain (who opened the email account) and I, Glyn Howard, use the same email account:
> Ann Cain, Glyn Howard
> gfndit(at)hotmail.com<http://hotmail.com/>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Meteorite-list <meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com<mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com>> on behalf of Anne Black via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com<mailto:meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2016 7:49 PM
> To: jl at lutzon.com<mailto:jl at lutzon.com>; meteoritemike at gmail.com<mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com<mailto:meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WR Gallery Delay ? U.S. World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery
>
> WOW!!!
>
> So many pictures, explanations, graphs, ....... so much wasted time and energy.
> And not one single Martin meteorite in sight!!!
>
>
> Anne M. Black
> www.IMPACTIKA.com<http://www.impactika.com/>
> IMPACTIKA at aol.com<mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Lutzon via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com<mailto:meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>>
> To: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com<mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com>>
> Cc: meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com<mailto:meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>>
> Sent: Sat, Apr 23, 2016 5:45 pm
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WR Gallery Delay ? U.S. World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery
>
> Buckle your seat belts, here we go again.....----- Original Message ----- From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks via Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.comlist_at_meteoritecentral.com<http://meteoritecentral.com/>>To: "Ann Cain" <Gfndit at hotmail.comGfndit@hotmail.com<http://hotmail.com/>>Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.comlist@meteoritecentral.com<http://meteoritecentral.com/>>Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2016 6:56 PMSubject: Re: [meteorite-list]WR Gallery Delay ? U.S. World Record Mars Meteorite DiscoveryWhere were these classified and by whom?On 4/23/16, Ann Cain via Meteorite-list<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.comlist@meteoritecentral.com<http://meteoritecentral.com/>> wrote:> Meteorite List,>> I would like to apologize for not having The Gallery of World Record Mars> Meteorites, from the US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery, ready and up> for viewing for this Passover 4-23-16, as I said I would. Things have been> very busy this school year. However, this summer I will finish
. I now intend> to have it ready on Rosh Hashanah 5777 AD/CE, (October 3-4, 2016), and I?m> hoping a 3rd PR can be released at that time in addition.>>> Rosh Hashanah 5777 AD/CE should be a good year of blessings, and I?m looking> forward to a new U.S. administration.>>>> Shalom,>>> Glyn Howard>>>>>> The Gallery of US World Record Mars Meteorite specimens:> http://gfoundit-mars.com/GalleryOfImages.html>>> The Evidence for GSA and GSB Mars Meteorites and Relevant Essays and> Articles> http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidence.html>>> The Evidence - G Found It - US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery> http://www.einpresswire.com/article/225047567/the-evidence-g-found-it-us-world-record-mars-meteorite-discovery>>> G Found It - U.S. World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery> http://www.gfoundit-mars.com/>>> G Found It ? U.S. World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery> http://www.einpresswire.com/article/143477981/g-found-it-u-s-world-record-mars-meteorite-discovery>>>>>> Recall: Both my sister Ann Cain (who opened the
email account) and I, Glyn> Howard, use the same email account ?> Ann Cain, Glyn Howard> gfndit(at)hotmail.com<http://hotmail.com/>>>>> ______________________________________________>> Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com<http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com/>> Meteorite-list mailing list> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.comlist_at_meteoritecentral.com<http://meteoritecentral.com/>> https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list>-- ----------------------------------------------------www.galactic-stone.comwww.facebook.com/galacticstonewww.twitter.com/galacticstonewww.pinterest.com/galacticstonewww.instagram.com/galacticstonewww.ello.co/galacticstonewww.tsu.com/galacticstone----------------------------------------------------______________________________________________Visit<http://www.galactic-stone.comwww.facebook.com/galacticstonewww.twitter.com/galacticstonewww.pinterest.com/galacticstonewww.instagram
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Received on Sat 30 Jul 2016 07:29:22 PM PDT


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