[meteorite-list] R: help me in understand analysis
From: Graham Ensor <graham.ensor_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 12:00:57 +0100
You say...."It is up to dealers to prove what they are selling is
legitimate, not collectors/buyers after the transaction. Why should a
buyer have to ask for provenance and the chain of custody directly to the
person named in a Meteoritical Bulletin? It is up to dealers to provide
this information up front. Who in their right mind would pay top dollar
for untested and unclassified stones being put on the market as planetary
The answer to that is that you would Adam....that is exactly how you first
bought in numerous rare pieces from NWA and then got them classified and
published. You then sell them with a link to the Bulletin and thus the
science....no more chain of provenance than that. Just your own and lab
This is exactly what I see happening at the moment with many other dealers
and even just collectors now...they are all doing the same as you did and
proudly bringing new material to science and the collectors market. I see
nothing wrong with that and I do not see all this so called fraudulent
material on the market. If you are seeing this meteorwrong or terrestrial
breccia material being sold by the dealers we would be very glad if you
could share links with us to that material or self paired so we are aware
of it and can decide ourselves. (Please let us know how you know it is
terrestrial breccia). I would certainly telling people. I called one
leading dealer out recently because they were saying the red coating on
some recent lunar was fusion crust and thus rare when it is actually desert
soil when examined at the lab and easily cleaned off. There are always a
few amateurs and fraudsters, not well known dealers...trying on...but you
seem to be saying more than that.
I admit people have to be careful when buying and need to see that the
material has been analysed at the lab if being sold as a classified type.
Those buying unclassified material have to take the risks like you and I
have always done and then it stays unclassified unless we make the effort
to donate parts and get the science done.
I just don't see what you are seeing and many other dealers are me asking
what you are talking about...please share something concrete with us if you
are seeing this. It is important for the confidence of the market in
On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 6:00 PM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list <
meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
> It is up to dealers to prove what they are selling is legitimate, not
> collectors/buyers after the transaction. Why should a buyer have to ask
> for provenance and the chain of custody directly to the person named in a
> Meteoritical Bulletin? It is up to dealers to provide this information up
> front. Who in their right mind would pay top dollar for untested and
> unclassified stones being put on the market as planetary pieces?
> If a dealer is too lazy to follow protocol then why should he/she be
> rewarded? There is no value added by simply reselling untested stones that
> are accompanied with stolen nomenclature and Meteortical Bulletin entries.
> Professionals see it as there is no such thing as an unclassified lunar.
> It is either lunar or it is not. There is no gray area. That is like
> somebody placing quartz (Herkimer Diamonds) on the market and trying to
> sell them as an unclassified natural diamonds. There are over 167,000 loose
> diamonds being offered on eBay. Guess how many are real? Most educated
> prospective buyers will not consider a stone without GIA certification.
> Buyers learned the hard way when spending thousands of dollars for
> worthless paste.
> I see terrestrial breccias being offered up as lunar material on a
> consistent bases thus the acid test. If it fizzes or you cannot get a
> direct chain of custody to the classifying laboratory, you may consider
> asking for an immediate refund. Save your hard earned money. There is
> something to be learned from other markets where buyers have been stiffed.
> On 10/9/2017 2:55 AM, Graham Ensor wrote:
>> I'm afraid it works the other way round too Adam...you would have to have
>> a piece analysed by an expert to say what you are saying rather than just
>> look at the pieces to see and conclude what they are. Every single piece of
>> my lunar has been to the leading lab specializing in meteorites in the UK
>> and been recorded, weighed and analysed to show it is lunar. I have the
>> write up and science write up submitted for classification if you wish to
>> see it. It is likely part of this new bigger find this year and matches the
>> other material around that I see for what that is worth.
>> Which reputable dealers are you accusing of selling the lunar material
>> you think is not lunar by just looking at it? I'm sure you should pass that
>> information on to help the community.
>> On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 1:33 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list <
>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com <mailto:meteorite-list at meteori
>> tecentral.com>> wrote:
>> A lot of the garbage being sold as lunar meteorites by so-called
>> reputable dealers will not even pass the fizz test.
>> Collectors are being fleeced out of thousands of dollars by
>> terrestrial limestone breccias, some of which can be found in the
>> Atlas Mountains near an impact structure. I would avoid or ask for a
>> refund on any material that fizzes on a cut surface! I remember
>> seeing the same crustless, caliche-rich material offered up at the
>> Tucson Gem and Mineral show several years ago for $50.00/gram. Now
>> it is being offered on eBay and other venues due to a somewhat
>> similar appearance to genuine Lunar meteorites. I do not know if
>> refunds were given to those who purchase this terrestrial material
>> in the past or not.
>> This is but one example of why all stones suspected as being
>> planetary should be formally tested and classified.
>> If in doubt, throw it out or demand a refund.
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Received on Tue 10 Oct 2017 07:00:57 AM PDT