[meteorite-list] Jalu meteorite and Carion practices

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From: STUARTATK_at_aol.com <STUARTATK_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 09:44:13 2004
Message-ID: <24.1514c914.285fb4a8_at_aol.com>

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Hi all,

I know I'm not one of the List's "experts", and my own collection would (and
does!) fit in a computer disk box, and all *my* hunting is done on my local
hills and up and down their dry stone walls, but I wanted to put a
"beginner"'s point of view here.

I may be missing something here, but sorry, I'm having trouble with this
whole "plundering" thing. Seems to me that until a meteorite is actively
looked for, located, and identified as a meteorite it's just a *ROCK*, it
just sits there doing nothing, looking... all black, and rock-like, and is
available to anyone and everyone who makes the effort to go out looking for
it, whether it's in the Sahara, Antarctica or Arizona. Regardless of who owns
the fall site, if no-one actually goes looking for a fallen meteorite it
stays there, as a rock, and no-one's any the wiser or any the richer - or
poorer.

Correct me if I'm wrong someone, but after all these years of publicity, the
Govts of desert countries / wilderness areas which have come to be known as
good meteorite hunting- and recovery locations must surely KNOW they're
sitting on a valuable resource, so surely it's their responsibility to make
the effort to exploit that resource, by organising - or funding - search
parties to harvest their riches and then capitalise on them, either using
them for scientific research or selling them on, their choice. If they are
happy to just sit on their hands and let the meteorites rust in the sand then
I'm sorry, but I can't feel too sorry for them. Some will say they can't
afford it. Fair point. I'm sure many can't fund large scale expeditions, etc.
But I'm equally sure that they could encourage the local populace to go out
on their behalf, offering rewards etc. And as for the local populations
themselves, you can't tell me that people who live in these areas aren't
aware of the value of the rocks found in the desert: apart from all those
bazar shops with shelves groaning under the weight of meteorites, from the
sound of it the Sahara is crawling with collectors, and I'm sure they can't
*all* be camouflaged or sneaking around like NAVY SEALS ;-) People must
*know* they're there and so will *know* that money is "out there" amongst the
dunes - so what's to stop them from going out there and collecting for
themselves?

If meteorites, anywhere, aren't hunted down and collected by *someone* then
they're lost to *everyone*, collectors and researchers alike. Yes there are
rules, and we should obey them, treat people fairly, etc. But I really am
having a hard time feeling too sorry for Sahara / wherever dwellers who,
knowing they have a chance to capitalise on this, don't take it. (Not too
long ago there were howls of indignation on the List when someone from -
Belgium? I think it was - complained about how a local fall was collected by
outsiders before a local search effort had been organised.) And again, I may
be offering a rather simplistic view here, if so I'm sorry, it is not my
intention to put anyone's nose out of joint here or to offend anyone, I said
I was no expert. I have nothing but respect and admiration for *everyone* on
this List. I just don't see how "plundering" is appropriate.

When we go to Mars we're going to find meteorites there, almost certainly
many pieces of Earth rock among them, maybe even some pieces of terrestrial
rock blasted out of the crust in the KT impact which killed-off the dinosaurs
... wow, imagine that... but they won't just be lying around for all to see,
they'll have to be hunted-down, pursued, just like meteorites here on Earth,
and when martian colonists stand outside their Habs in 2069, gazing at the
beautiful sight of Halley's Comet shining close to the Earth in the sunset
sky, they're not going to be moaning about Mars having been "plundered", that
won't happen, because they'll have got off their backsides and collected them
themselves, shipping the most common ones back to Earth to raise funds to
help pay for their Colony's expansion, putting the rarest ones in a museum,
and using the more unusual-looking ones for sculptures and jewelery.

What's that got to do with this thread? Well, I'm sure that somewhere out
there in Arizona, the Sahara, Antarctica or Siberia there's a "Holy Grail"
martian meteorite just waiting to be discovered, a piece of Mars rock
containing absolutely conclusive proof of the existence of native martian
life, but the fact is it's not going to walk into a lab with its hands up and
turn itself in, the Universe isn't that kind, or stupid, She makes us work
for our discoveries and glories. That's why meteorites, unfortunately, do not
fall softly and conveniently into the car parks of museums and labs; they
fall in god-forsaken deserts, onto barren ice fields and glaciers, and only
surrender themselves to the people with the determination, dedication and
sheer bloody-mindedness to look for them after much gritting of teeth,
mopping of brows and howls of frustration.

All I'm saying is that there has to be a way to collect meteorites from these
"challenging" locations fairly and with respect... but they're there for
*everyone* to find, locals or Air-Miles collecting foreigners, you know?

Respectfully,

Stu

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<HTML>Hi all,
 
 I know I'm not one of the List's "experts", and my own collection would (and
 does!) fit in a computer disk box, and all *my* hunting is done on my local
 hills and up and down their dry stone walls, but I wanted to put a
 "beginner"'s point of view here.
 
 I may be missing something here, but sorry, I'm having trouble with this
 whole "plundering" thing. Seems to me that until a meteorite is actively
 looked for, located, and identified as a meteorite it's just a *ROCK*, it
 just sits there doing nothing, looking... all black, and rock-like, and is
 available to anyone and everyone who makes the effort to go out looking for
 it, whether it's in the Sahara, Antarctica or Arizona. Regardless of who owns
 the fall site, if no-one actually goes looking for a fallen meteorite it
 stays there, as a rock, and no-one's any the wiser or any the richer - or
 poorer.
 
 Correct me if I'm wrong someone, but after all these years of publicity, the
 Govts of desert countries / wilderness areas which have come to be known as
 good meteorite hunting- and recovery locations must surely KNOW they're
 sitting on a valuable resource, so surely it's their responsibility to make
 the effort to exploit that resource, by organising - or funding - search
 parties to harvest their riches and then capitalise on them, either using
 them for scientific research or selling them on, their choice. If they are
 happy to just sit on their hands and let the meteorites rust in the sand then
 I'm sorry, but I can't feel too sorry for them. Some will say they can't
 afford it. Fair point. I'm sure many can't fund large scale expeditions, etc.
 But I'm equally sure that they could encourage the local populace to go out
 on their behalf, offering rewards etc. And as for the local populations
 themselves, you can't tell me that people who live in these areas aren't
 aware of the value of the rocks found in the desert: apart from all those
 bazar shops with shelves groaning under the weight of meteorites, from the
 sound of it the Sahara is crawling with collectors, and I'm sure they can't
 *all* be camouflaged or sneaking around like NAVY SEALS ;-) People must
 *know* they're there and so will *know* that money is "out there" amongst the
 dunes - so what's to stop them from going out there and collecting for
 themselves?
 
 If meteorites, anywhere, aren't hunted down and collected by *someone* then
 they're lost to *everyone*, collectors and researchers alike. Yes there are
 rules, and we should obey them, treat people fairly, etc. But I really am
 having a hard time feeling too sorry for Sahara / wherever dwellers who,
 knowing they have a chance to capitalise on this, don't take it. (Not too
 long ago there were howls of indignation on the List when someone from -
 Belgium? I think it was - complained about how a local fall was collected by
 outsiders before a local search effort had been organised.) And again, I may
 be offering a rather simplistic view here, if so I'm sorry, it is not my
 intention to put anyone's nose out of joint here or to offend anyone, I said
 I was no expert. I  have nothing but respect and admiration for *everyone* on
 this List. I just don't see how "plundering" is appropriate.  
 
 When we go to Mars we're going to find meteorites there, almost certainly
 many pieces of Earth rock among them, maybe even some pieces of terrestrial
 rock blasted out of the crust in the KT impact which killed-off the dinosaurs
 ... wow,  imagine that... but they won't just be lying around for all to see,
 they'll have to be hunted-down, pursued, just like meteorites here on Earth,
 and when martian colonists stand outside their Habs in 2069, gazing at the
 beautiful sight of Halley's Comet shining close to the Earth in the sunset
 sky, they're not going to be moaning about Mars having been "plundered", that
 won't happen, because they'll have got off their backsides and collected them
 themselves, shipping the most common ones back to Earth to raise funds to
 help pay for their Colony's expansion, putting the rarest ones in a museum,
 and using the more unusual-looking ones for sculptures and jewelery.
 
 What's that got to do with this thread? Well, I'm sure that somewhere out
 there in Arizona, the Sahara, Antarctica or Siberia there's a "Holy Grail"
 martian meteorite just waiting to be discovered, a piece of Mars rock
 containing absolutely conclusive proof of the existence of native martian
 life, but the fact is it's not going to walk into a lab with its hands up and
 turn itself in, the Universe isn't that kind, or stupid, She makes us work
 for our discoveries and glories. That's why meteorites, unfortunately, do not
 fall softly and conveniently into the car parks of museums and labs; they
 fall in god-forsaken deserts, onto barren ice fields and glaciers, and only
 surrender themselves to the people with the determination, dedication and
 sheer bloody-mindedness to look for them after much gritting of teeth,
 mopping of brows and howls of frustration.
 
 All I'm saying is that there has to be a way to collect meteorites from these
 "challenging" locations fairly and with respect... but they're there for
 *everyone* to find, locals or Air-Miles collecting foreigners, you know?
 
 Respectfully,
 
 Stu
 
 
 
 </HTML>

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Received on Mon 18 Jun 2001 03:46:48 PM PDT

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