[meteorite-list] AD - New Rare EL3 Paleo-Meteorite - NWA 2828

From: MexicoDoug <MexicoDoug_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Sep 7 14:11:16 2006
Message-ID: <012901c6d2a8$e8158160$41ce5ec8_at_0019110394>

Hello Michael, However Greg feels like describing his meteorite is perfectly
fine with me, thanks, as I'd posted before - and paleo- works for me, for
which I appreciate your thoughts as well. Most importantly, thanks to Greg
for doing the hard work allowing us to engage in this discussion at all!

While there was never a question on my mind of whether paleo- was fine which
seems your point, Greg's rationale from the first authors working with him
was that "fossil" was avoided to proactively not be confused with "signs of
life" scientists and crowd. This rationale is where I chose to jump in. I
did notice that, as well as meaning ancient, Paleo- also means primitive
(thus my reference to the ilkes of Peking Man) and could be equally
ambiguous with meteorites, while avoiding life, but now implying something
else as it is not a common term for this application. Thus, I thought that
was an interesting discussion point in a general sense for those interested.
I then expressed my opinion that the word "relict" might be a common
scientific word to describe this geological situation and perhaps that would
consider Dr. Grossman's original post for clarification, since I think -
correct me if I am wrong - that the word relict describes more a "fossil"
mineral (i.e., not especially one containing fossilized life).

I thought from reading Greg's item description there were mineralization
processes affecting the chemical composition of this unique meteorite find.

"Fossil" tektites in sediments are covered well in Nobel Prize winning
literature, though most often they are called relict tektites in literature
in my understanding. A paleotektite would sound a bit weird to me, but hey,
if there is already a precedent in geology what, why buck it? Of course I
may be seeing this through relict tektite colored glasses!

Best wishes, Doug
P.S.*, I don't think this has been "subjected to Earth's atmosphere, at
least directly, for millions of years", as you say. I think it's isolation
in sediment from Earth's may have been key to it's interesting conservation.
Just a minor point, and the same one that gives us relict tektite glass.

* Thanks to D for correcting me on "p.d."


Michael wrote:

> Hi Doug and all,
> Unless I am mistaken "Paleo" is Greek for "ancient." (Scientists
> are particularly fond of Greek and Latin) While all meteorites are
> ancient, Paleo meteorite, meaning one that has been subjected to the
> earth's atmosphere for millions of years, would seem to be an appropriate
> use of terminology.
> Best wishes, Michael
>
> on 9/7/06 9:52 AM, MexicoDoug at MexicoDoug_at_aim.com wrote:
>
> > Hello Greg and Listees,
> >
> > There are a few posters and other scientific references that google up
for
> > "paleometeorite". I liked your rationale given, though I have this
question
> > based on your explanation:
> >
> > All meteorites are ancient and to our knowledge a record of the early
> > formation of the Solar System, but the word "fossil" implies some sort
of
> > mineralogical replacement processes occurring afterwards. Does Paleo-
> > include this, or simply say it is ancient? As for the fossil meteorite
and
> > fossils in meteorites, another descriptor like "relict" would be more
> > appropriate if you want to be true to geology jargon. Relict implies
that
> > some of the original character remains, though mineral replacement has
also
> > occurred - but it is quite recognizable. Paleo- to me reminds me of the
> > likes Peking man!
> >
> > Just a thought, and you can call it paleo all you want since you're
doing
> > the work (saw your name was on the poster at the LPI meeting, congrats),
> >
> > Best wishes, Doug
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe_at_tampabay.rr.com>
> > To: "Jeff Grossman" <jgrossman_at_usgs.gov>
> > Cc: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 10:47 AM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - New Rare EL3 Paleo-Meteorite - NWA
2828
> >
> >
> >> Dear Jeff and other NWA 2828 EL3 enthusiasts,
> >>
> >> paleo-meteorite or "fossil" meteorite? That is the question...
> >>
> >> In a short conversation with one of the lead scientists who have and
are
> >> studying NWA 2828 and the other recent enstatite meteorites, they
referred
> >> to 2828 as a paleo-meteorite instead of "fossil" meteorite so people
would
> >> not think they referred to ancient life being found in it. The term
> > "fossil"
> >> meteorite has been used to describe several ancient meteorites that
were
> >> found in rocks or sediments; a 480 million year old quarried Swedish
> >> limestone, a meteorite found in a drillcore through the impact melt
sheet
> > of
> >> the 145 million year old Morokweng Crater, to name a couple. The word
> > fossil
> >> in geology has the strong connotation as evidence of life but literally
> >> means "dug up". The prefix paleo- means ancient, so a paleo-meteorite
> > would
> >> be an ancient meteorite. That term does not necessarily mean that it
was
> >> excavated nor does it say how old it is, but sedimentary processes on
> > earth
> >> tend to bury objects on the surface after tens to hundreds of thousands
of
> >> years. It definitely was transported and abraded by water flow, then
> > buried
> >> and cemented into a terrestrial conglomerate and then dug up. In short,
> > the
> >> best way to describe NWA 2828 is either "fossil" meteorite or
> >> paleo-meteorite but has nothing to do with ancient life. Terrestrial
age
> >> dating is currently being performed and a new abstract has been
submitted.
> >>
> >> I hope this answers some of the questions this "new" and exciting
> > meteorite
> >> has brought up.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Greg
> >> P.S. I loaded several more slices of NWA 2828 if anyone wants to have a
> >> look.
> >>
> >> ====================
> >> Greg Hupe
> >> The Hupe Collection
> >> NaturesVault (eBay)
> >> gmhupe_at_tampabay.rr.com
> >> IMCA 3163
> >> ====================
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jeff Grossman" <jgrossman_at_usgs.gov>
> >> To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> >> Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 6:33 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - New Rare EL3 Paleo-Meteorite - NWA
2828
> >>
> >>
> >>> What the heck is a "paleometeorite", how is it different from a fossil
> >>> meteorite, and why is NWA 2828 called this?
> >>>
> >>> jeff
> >>>
> >>> At 01:33 PM 9/5/2006, Greg Hupe wrote:
> >>>> Dear List Members,
> >>>>
> >>>> I am pleased to announce a new and very rare EL3 Paleo-Meteorite. It
is
> >>>> NWA 2828 and was originally thought to be an aubrite but after
> > additional
> >>>> material was cut and analyzed at the University of Washington and
NAU, a
> >>>> few radial pyroxene chondrules were discovered. EL3's are even rarer
> > than
> >>>> aubrites so the re-classification turned out to a pleasant surprise.
> > What
> >>>> is interesting about NWA 2828 is the very low count of chondrules
> >>>> throughout the individual stones, less than 1%! It has taken nearly a
> > year
> >>>> of hard work by myself and the scientists to get this properly
> > classified
> >>>> so if you are interested, purchase your EL3 material from the
official
> >>>> source for NWA 2828 where you know you will get a great deal and the
> > right
> >>>> meteorite.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have loaded 36 slices, end cuts and individuals on eBay under my
> > seller
> >>>> name, NaturesVault. Here are the direct links to these very low
> >>>> introductory-priced specimens:
> >>>>
> >>>> NWA 2828 EL3 Meteorite Specimens:
> >>>> Slices
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025470628&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025471089&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025471402&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025471681&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025471942&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025472178&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025472471&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025472747&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025472988&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>>> End Cuts
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025473352&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025473778&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025474093&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025474474&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025474758&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025475050&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025475332&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025475564&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025475814&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>>> Individuals
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025476678&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025477096&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025477462&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025478334&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025478736&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025479083&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025479418&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025479707&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025480013&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025480437&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025480707&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025481184&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025481508&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025481910&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025486868&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025487249&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025487606&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>
> >>>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=008&item=180025487961&rd=
> > 1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1
> >>>>
> >>>> In addition to these great deals, I have a number of excellent
auctions
> >>>> ending tomorrow and Thursday. Be sure to check then out as many are
> > still
> >>>> at just 99 cents.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards and Thank You for looking and/or bidding, I appreciate
it!
> >>>> Greg
> >>>>
> >>>> ====================
> >>>> Greg Hupe
> >>>> The Hupe Collection
> >>>> NaturesVault (eBay)
> >>>> gmhupe_at_tampabay.rr.com
> >>>> IMCA 3163
> >>>> ====================
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ______________________________________________
> >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >>>> Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>>
> >>> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184
> >>> US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383
> >>> 954 National Center
> >>> Reston, VA 20192, USA
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ______________________________________________
> >>> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >>> Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
Received on Thu 07 Sep 2006 02:10:27 PM PDT