[meteorite-list] AL HAGGOUNIA 001 ("NOT" AUBRITE)

From: Michael Farmer <meteoriteguy_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 09:26:33 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <828411.19187.qm_at_web33114.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I am confused, if some pieces have chondules (which I
know they do as I also was in Morocco more than once
or twice:) then it is a chondrite, and if it is a
chondrite, it cannot be an Aubrite. I myself cut more
than 50 kilos of pieces most of it was absolute
garbage, since it is millions of years old. I found
chondrules in most pieces, some did not seem to
exhibit any.
Since we all agree that this material is paired, then
why the argument over Aubrite or E chondrite.
Chondrules in any of it must knock out the Aubrite
cassification.
Michael Farmer
--- Philippe Thomas <thomasmeteorites at wanadoo.fr>
wrote:

> Dear Greg and all,
>
> It is not usual for me to participate in the debates
> because by experience often these remain sterile and
> my level of English does not allow me to make me
> understood completely.
>
> Here is that I have to say as comment of this
> meteorite:
>
> First, all the Moroccan having a relationship with
> the business of meteorites know Al Haggounia's
> strewnfield (Western Sahara not Algeria) for a long
> time before that you and I let us be
> dealers of meteorites. At this time, nobody was
> certain that he can involve a meteorite, the
> knowledge of Moroccan were not the one from now and
> it is necessary to say that first sight
> has it is not evident to recognize a meteorite in
> this material. The first analyzed pieces and
> declared numbers were classified EL6, E6 and the
> first one which has been classified as an
> aubrite was the NWA 2736.
>
> This classification launched a new rush on Al
> Haggounia, and hundreds of kilos of this material
> met itself has Erfoud.
>
> In April, 2006, when I met my Moroccan partner in
> Erfoud, he showed me several hundreds of kilos of
> this material in bags which had just arrived from
> Western Sahara. In these hundreds
> of kilos, I chose carefully several kilos of all the
> representative parts of this meteorite to give them
> later to Albert Jambon. As well as Fred Beroud, Ali
> Hmani and Ait Ouzrou, who agreed
> to make a common declaration rather than multiply
> the numbers NWA, supplied a big quantity of material
> to Albert Jambon.
>
> I think that Albert Jambon is the most qualified
> person to describe this meteorite. Before subjecting
> his declaration he went up an expedition to go on
> the spot in association with the
> other French and Moroccan scientists. The
> strewnfield as described by Albert Jambon and others
> scientists who participated in the expedition is a
> classic strewnfield, an ellipse 40 km
> long with the also classic distribution of the big
> and small pieces. On the strewnfield the geologists
> make the dating of the ground and all the analyses
> to describe the strewnfield. They
> found themselves several pieces of this meteorite.
> In Laayoune, Albert Jambon also saw several hundreds
> of kilos of this meteorite with Moroccan involved in
> the search on the
> strewnfield. What gives approximately 3 tons for
> this meteorite if we add the various pairings.
>
> There is no doubt, and I believe that everybody
> agrees, that all this material NWA xxxx and Al
> Haggounia 001 with different results of analysis is
> the same. It was classified EL6, E6,
> aubrite, EL6 / 7, EL3... Three different
> laboratories have classified this meteorite as an
> aubrite.
> For the owners of a part of this meteorite which
> supplied the typical sample has a scientist so that
> he made the analysis, there is no reason for not
> believing the scientist in question
> whom he has to trust in the quality of his work it
> is a question of respect.
>
> In this case, in which we are certain that it is
> about the same meteorite, the various
> classifications raise naturally a problem. The
> important weathering of this meteorite explains
> maybe
> the difficulty of the determination.
>
> To end, I think that no dealer can grant himself the
> right to say such analysis is the good and such the
> other one is false and there is no reason to say
> that the good analysis is EL3.
>
> Best wishes,
> Philippe
>
> http://www.meteoritica.com/
>
> Dear Frederic, Matteo and List Members,
>
> "Al Haggounia 001"(NWA 4420), NWA 2828 and the other
> Fossil EL3's are NOT, I repeat, NOT aubrites. I wish
> they were, I have many, many kilos of NWA 2828. At
> first when just the type
> sample was tested, it came back as an aubrite, no
> chondrules were found. After cutting more of the NWA
> 2828 material I had, I began to find these funny
> round things and I thought, "Oh
> no, these are chondrules, this can not be an
> aubrite". I then sent more sample material in to
> have tested and sure enough, they WERE chondrules.
> Unfortunately I had not cut the material
> for sale until the classification and abstract were
> approved. After the chondrules were found and
> confirmed by several US scientists, a revised
> classification and abstract were submitted.
> The abstract was approved, see here:
> http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2006AGUFM.P51E1247K
> but the NWA 2828 classification was not changed by
> the Meteoritical Society in the
> bulletin (not sure why this is, any one out there
> who can address this?).
>
> The classifying scientist who studied NWA 4420 "Al
> Haggounia", Dr. Jambon, refused scientific data
> supporting the EL3 classification from the US
> scientists and classified the sample he
> had as an aubrite. This material IS THE SAME AS NWA
> 2828, the now infamous EL3 Fossil (Paleo) meteorite!
> I do not know if "Al Haggnounia" is trying to be
> wished into being an aubrite,
> but IT IS NOT!!! Those who have sent Dr. Jambon
> sample material need to send him and other
> scientists more samples that show the true makeup of
> this meteorite. In other words, send
> samples with those funny round things so the
> classification can be made correctly. When new data
> and evidence is presented, it is up to the dealers
> AND the scientists to do the right
> thing.
>
> To error is OK as long as a correction is made as in
> the case of NWA 2828, hence the title of the revised
> abstract, "EL3 Chondrite (not Aubrite) Northwest
> Africa 2828: An Unusual Paleo-
> meteorite Occurring as Cobbles in a Terrestrial
> Conglomerate". See here:
> http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2006AGUFM.P51E1247K
>
> I wish NWA 2828 was an aubrite, but an EL3 Fossil
> meteorite is pretty cool too. Anyone want an
> excellent deal on some nice and clean NWA 2828
> stones?
>
> Respectfully,
> Greg
>
> ====================
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> NaturesVault (eBay)
> gmhupe at htn.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
> ====================
> Click here for my current eBay auctions:
> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "meteoriteshow"
> <meteoriteshow at free.fr>
> To: "Meteorite List Meteoritecentral"
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:54 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - AL HAGGOUNIA 001
> (AUBRITE)
>
>
> Dear Listees,
>
> Sorry, the links where cut in my previous post.
> So please just find them (I hope this time uncut)
> hereunder:
>
> 1/ Al Haggounia 001 / Meteoritical Society:
>
http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?sfor=names&categ=Aubrites&mblist=92
>
> 2/ Al Haggounia 001 for sale on Meteoriteshow web
> site:
>
http://meteoriteshow.free.fr/meteoriteshow%20fra/pages%20navigation/pieces_en_vente-fra.htm#NWA4420
>
>
>
> kind regards,
>
> Frederic Beroud
> IMCA #2491
> www.meteoriteshow.com
>
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Received on Thu 29 Nov 2007 12:26:33 PM PST