[meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star

From: Mexicodoug <mexicodoug_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:37:02 -0400
Message-ID: <8CBB83B7C6A7BEE-F34-18C7_at_FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com>

Zelimir wrote:

"Didn't you forget Winona ?"

Hello Zelimir !!!!!!

Thanks, You have a great sense of humor :-)

Yes, everyone from the Rolling Stones to Disney is now reminding me,

"DON'T FORGET WINONA!"

How careless of me, in honor the Route 66, and the Mother Road to
ancient ruins with meteorites, like the song, Winona may be out of
sequence, but not forgotten..., but the crown jewel of ancient ruins as
shown in Zelimir's great link...
http://sped2work.tripod.com/elden.html

Hopefully the road to Ensisheim is easier than whats left of '66,

Kind wishes,
Doug

PS: If you don't know the song, get hip with this timely tip, if you
ever plan to Motor West to go meteorite hunting. Nininger was right..

My favorite rendition:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT1rPSGeJ38

Here is a picture of the old bridge at Winona when "Don't forget
Winona" is sung:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbCdiWZP3Wk

And here are three more:
for the oldersters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBmr5EuwCEQ

youngersters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tpjKYe0Big

and anyone whole likes Spanish Argentine girls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plvMedxlc-A

PPS, In honor of the town of Winona (I've already sent the Nininger
correction to the webmaster abou it being Nininger's and not
Barringer's museum) here is a fine history of the settement that gave
the legendary meteorite its name.
http://www.legendsofamerica.com/AZ-BeyondWinslow.html

=0
A













-----Original Message-----
From: Zelimir Gabelica <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
To: Mexicodoug <mexicodoug at aim.com>; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 8:59 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star


Hi Doug,?
?
Didn't you forget Winona ??
?
See here a quite interesting read:?
?
http://sped2work.tripod.com/elden.html?
?
My best,?
?
Zelimir?
?
At 11:09 10/06/2009, Mexicodoug wrote:?
>Sterling wrote:?
>?
>"So, no, no ancient ruins "yielded" >authenticated meteorites. You
see, there was >this obscure religious cult that took over and >tried,
with great success, to destroy all traces >of any previous religious
worship, temples, shrines, relics, and so forth."?
>?
>His Sterling, List, Rob M and Greg H,?
>?
>I asked if anyone could come up with an example >of an authentic
meteorite being found in any >ancient ruins outside the Americas, after
>reading this great recap of Camp Verde. This >really wasn't motivated
by religion; more it was >just from this exciting type of meteorite
>recovery in hand making a bridge from the modern >world too the past,
and because I have become >very skeptical of the author of that article
>apparently using Lawrence Garvie as his source >and others' claims,
that meteorites have been >found in ancient ruins worldwide. Well, if
y
ou >can't Google up any meteorites found from ruins >outside the
Americas, so now it is officially >independently confirmed at least to
me, thank >you!! :-) Let me now, raise this one level further:?
>?
>So far, it would seem that the Americas, and in >fact, only North
America (please correct me if >you recall something found in any South
American >ruins because I can't despite Campo and the real Incan
Empire, etc...).?
>?
>Regarding meteorites being found in ancient >ruins ... in fact,
outside Brenham, Glorieta, >Canyon Diablo, Casas Grandes, and Chihuahua
- >the list seems20to end, unless you add a few >more from some mounds
in, fine, again, the US, >this time its southeast. It ends so abruptly
>that it feels like I am abysmally missing >something big (No,
Willamette was not found in >any ruins, and it is in US territory
anyway)... >Maybe I should have added Namibia and Mongolia, >Greenland
and Siberia? By no means does this >need to be restricted to ancient
Mediterranean >region and Arabian Peninsula, though they get the most
lip service.?
>?
>Are the only places meteorites have been found >in ancient ruins,
then, in North America, >between the latitudes of Florida and Ohio?
>Somehow this is shocking as well as >disconcerting with 20/20
meteoritic vision on the past ...?
>?
>Oh, before I forget to mention this, which is >another unrelated
general comment about the >article:=2
0this paragraph was really
interesting >for comparison with Greg's exciting Ocate, NM iron:?
>?
>"The interesting thing about Camp Verde is that >it does not look like
the other Canyon Diablo >irons," Moore says. "Its chemistry, however,
is >identical. So the only conclusion we can make is >that it is a
piece of Canyon Diablo."?
>?
>I wonder what Dr. Moore would say regarding >Ocate if he had a chance
to look at it??
>?
>To Rob's table I have added the ranges from >Buchwald (1975) to show
some variation among >other researchers /specimens in testing for the
>two elements Rob identified as potential outliers for a pairing: Ga
and?
>Ge. Also from Buchwald are the old results >Wasson (1968) showed for
Camp Verde though the >experimental uncertainties were not listed in
>the book. You can see the outliers by Rob's >method, suddenly seem to
be part of the pack >just by comparing things holistically rather >than
assuming test methodology and specific >samples tested to have
reproducible uniformity.?
>?
>Elem. Ocate, NM Canyon Diablo Diff. Sigma?
>----- -------------- --------------- ----- -----?
>Ni 69.9 +/- 0.5 69.2 +/- 1.7 0.7 < 1?
>Co 0.466 +/- 0.004 0.468 +/- 0.015 0.002 << 1?
>?
>Ga 71.9 +/- 0.3 83.8 +/- 3.4 11.9 3.2?
>***(VB 74 - 81.8, Camp Verde 78)***?
>?
>Ge 271 +/- 6 322 +/- 19 51 2.0?
>***(VB 283 - 324, Camp Verde 322)***

>?
>Ir 2.25 +/- 0.04 2.17 +/- 0.07 0.08 < 1?
>Au 1.60 +/- 0.03 1.57 +/- 0.11 0.03 << 1?
>As 15.2 +/- 0.3 12.7 +/- 0.7 2.5 2.5?
>Cu 119 +/- 11 148 +/- 6 29 1.7?
>W 0.87 +/- 0.08 0.99 +/- .129 0.12 < 1?
>Re 0.22 +/- 0.02 0.228 +/- 0.027 0.008 << 1?
>?
>To be clear, IMO if Ocate is indeed a >transported Canyon Diablo,it
can only be more >interesting, and greatly more especially, if the
>morphology compares favorably to Camp Verde. Has >the Ocate mass photo
been posted yet? I hope the >Canadian classifiers can share their
analytical >notes on material and methods, with Wasson, >Moore and Co.,
and appreciate their work with >Greg in getting this interesting find
done relatively quickly.?
>?
>?
>Best wishes, Doug?
>?
>?
>?
>----?
>-Original Message-----?
>From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>?
>To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Mexicodoug
<mexicodoug at aim.com>?
>Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 11:57 pm?
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star?
>?
>Everybody wants a meteorite for their Temple, ya know???
>??
>??
>Sterling K. Webb??
>--------------------------------------------------------------------??
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aim.com>??
>To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>??
>Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:40 PM??
>Subject: Re:
 [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star??
>??
>>Great article, though this paragraph about other "meteors" being?
>found > need editing:??
>>??
>>"Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas,
as??
>>well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce??
>>Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe,??
>>N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca?
>ruin??
>>near Chihuahua, Mexico."??
>>??
>>The Incas, of course are not from Chihuahua, but a good fraction of a?
> > world away in Peru ... The author is > referring to the Paquim??
pueblo > of the > probably Anasazi Pueblo type Indians (Like from > the
US > southwest), though they may have had a > tad more of Aztec
influence. > And the > meteorite is from INSIDE Chihuahua (the state),
> and NEAR > Nuevas Casas Grandes. It was found far from Chih?
>uahua City actually > much closer to Arizona >which is just 93 miles
away. Political > boundaries...bah :-)??
>>??
>>Does anyone recall what other ancient ruins yielded authenticated >?
>meteorites outside the Americas as claiming by >the article they are >
found "all around the >world in ancient ruins". I am thinking Greece, >
>Cyprus and Turkey, but no meteorite comes to >mind. And the Japanese >
one was certainly not found in ruins.C3?
>>??
>>Another tear shed today after reading about the other Grand Canyon >?
>fragment...??
>>??
>>"In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his??
>>collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde
Valley??
>>for the first time in nearly 800 yea??
>>rs."??
>>??
>>One (at least me) wonders whether the "800 year buried piece of?
>Canyon > Diablo (Camp Verde piece)" was ever at >all "on display" on
the Native > American >Sinagua or if it was placed to rest with that
>stone > ceremonially out of sight with respects >being rendered
specifically > NOT to be >displayed, I am not sure how this statement
>about displaying > could be made in the article >with any accuracy,
and suppose the author > >really got carried away trying to say the
Camp >Verde piece is on > display in the Verde Vally >of AZ...but not
sure; thanks for the post!??
>>??
>>Best wishes,??
>>Doug??
>>??
>>??
>>-----Original Mess?
>age-----??
>>From: Michael Groetz <mpg4444 at gmail.com>??
>>To: Meteorite List <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>??
>>Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 8:37 pm??
>>Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star??
>>??
>>??
>>??
>http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=31230
??
>>??
>>The
tale of a falling star??
>>By Steve Ayers, Staff Reporter??
>>??
>>Tuesday, June 09, 2009??
>>??
>>CAMP VERDE - George Dawson was no stranger to hard work.??
>>??
>>A seasoned construction hand, he traveled extensively throughout??
>>Central America and the American southwest, moving mountains for?
>money??
>>and, when time allowed, doing some digging on his own for both fun?
>and??
>>profit.??
>>??
>>In the spring of 1927, Dawson found himself between jobs. A Phoenix??
>>resident, he loaded his truck with supplies and tools of his trade,??
>>and headed north, hoping the fertile ground of the Verde Valley
would??
>>surren??
>>der its ancient treasures.??
>>??
>>Pothunters like Dawson knew the valley to be a steady source of?
>income??
>>for anyone willing to turn over a few stones.??
>>??
>>For this tri?
>______________________________________________?
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com?
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?
Prof. Zelimir Gabelica?
Universit? de Haute Alsace?
ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC,?
3, Rue A. Werner,?
F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France?
Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94?
Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15
Received on Wed 10 Jun 2009 07:37:02 PM PDT