[meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star

From: Zelimir Gabelica <Zelimir.Gabelica_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:59:38 +0200
Message-ID: <200906101358.n5ADwgnA012120_at_smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr>

Hi Doug,

Didn't you forget Winona ?

See here a quite interesting read:


My best,


At 11:09 10/06/2009, Mexicodoug wrote:
>Sterling wrote:
>"So, no, no ancient ruins "yielded"
>authenticated meteorites. You see, there was
>this obscure religious cult that took over and
>tried, with great success, to destroy all traces
>of any previous religious worship, temples, shrines, relics, and so forth."
>His Sterling, List, Rob M and Greg H,
>I asked if anyone could come up with an example
>of an authentic meteorite being found in any
>ancient ruins outside the Americas, after
>reading this great recap of Camp Verde. This
>really wasn't motivated by religion; more it was
>just from this exciting type of meteorite
>recovery in hand making a bridge from the modern
>world too the past, and because I have become
>very skeptical of the author of that article
>apparently using Lawrence Garvie as his source
>and others' claims, that meteorites have been
>found in ancient ruins worldwide. Well, if you
>can't Google up any meteorites found from ruins
>outside the Americas, so now it is officially
>independently confirmed at least to me, thank
>you!! :-) Let me now, raise this one level further:
>So far, it would seem that the Americas, and in
>fact, only North America (please correct me if
>you recall something found in any South American
>ruins because I can't despite Campo and the real Incan Empire, etc...).
>Regarding meteorites being found in ancient
>ruins ... in fact, outside Brenham, Glorieta,
>Canyon Diablo, Casas Grandes, and Chihuahua -
>the list seems20to end, unless you add a few
>more from some mounds in, fine, again, the US,
>this time its southeast. It ends so abruptly
>that it feels like I am abysmally missing
>something big (No, Willamette was not found in
>any ruins, and it is in US territory anyway)...
>Maybe I should have added Namibia and Mongolia,
>Greenland and Siberia? By no means does this
>need to be restricted to ancient Mediterranean
>region and Arabian Peninsula, though they get the most lip service.
>Are the only places meteorites have been found
>in ancient ruins, then, in North America,
>between the latitudes of Florida and Ohio?
>Somehow this is shocking as well as
>disconcerting with 20/20 meteoritic vision on the past ...
>Oh, before I forget to mention this, which is
>another unrelated general comment about the
>article: this paragraph was really interesting
>for comparison with Greg's exciting Ocate, NM iron:
>"The interesting thing about Camp Verde is that
>it does not look like the other Canyon Diablo
>irons," Moore says. "Its chemistry, however, is
>identical. So the only conclusion we can make is
>that it is a piece of Canyon Diablo."
>I wonder what Dr. Moore would say regarding
>Ocate if he had a chance to look at it?
>To Rob's table I have added the ranges from
>Buchwald (1975) to show some variation among
>other researchers /specimens in testing for the
>two elements Rob identified as potential outliers for a pairing: Ga and
>Ge. Also from Buchwald are the old results
>Wasson (1968) showed for Camp Verde though the
>experimental uncertainties were not listed in
>the book. You can see the outliers by Rob's
>method, suddenly seem to be part of the pack
>just by comparing things holistically rather
>than assuming test methodology and specific
>samples tested to have reproducible uniformity.
>Elem. Ocate, NM Canyon Diablo Diff. Sigma
>----- -------------- --------------- ----- -----
>Ni 69.9 +/- 0.5 69.2 +/- 1.7 0.7 < 1
>Co 0.466 +/- 0.004 0.468 +/- 0.015 0.002 << 1
>Ga 71.9 +/- 0.3 83.8 +/- 3.4 11.9 3.2
>***(VB 74 - 81.8, Camp Verde 78)***
>Ge 271 +/- 6 322 +/- 19 51 2.0
>***(VB 283 - 324, Camp Verde 322)***
>Ir 2.25 +/- 0.04 2.17 +/- 0.07 0.08 < 1
>Au 1.60 +/- 0.03 1.57 +/- 0.11 0.03 << 1
>As 15.2 +/- 0.3 12.7 +/- 0.7 2.5 2.5
>Cu 119 +/- 11 148 +/- 6 29 1.7
>W 0.87 +/- 0.08 0.99 +/- .129 0.12 < 1
>Re 0.22 +/- 0.02 0.228 +/- 0.027 0.008 << 1
>To be clear, IMO if Ocate is indeed a
>transported Canyon Diablo,it can only be more
>interesting, and greatly more especially, if the
>morphology compares favorably to Camp Verde. Has
>the Ocate mass photo been posted yet? I hope the
>Canadian classifiers can share their analytical
>notes on material and methods, with Wasson,
>Moore and Co., and appreciate their work with
>Greg in getting this interesting find done relatively quickly.
>Best wishes, Doug
>-Original Message-----
>From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
>To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Mexicodoug <mexicodoug at aim.com>
>Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 11:57 pm
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star
>Everybody wants a meteorite for their Temple, ya know??
>Sterling K. Webb?
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aim.com>?
>To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>?
>Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:40 PM?
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star?
>>Great article, though this paragraph about other "meteors" being
>found > need editing:?
>>"Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, as?
>>well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce?
>>Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe,?
>>N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca
>>near Chihuahua, Mexico."?
>>The Incas, of course are not from Chihuahua, but a good fraction of a
> > world away in Peru ... The author is
> referring to the Paquim?? pueblo > of the
> probably Anasazi Pueblo type Indians (Like from
> the US > southwest), though they may have had a
> tad more of Aztec influence. > And the
> meteorite is from INSIDE Chihuahua (the state),
> and NEAR > Nuevas Casas Grandes. It was found far from Chih
>uahua City actually > much closer to Arizona
>which is just 93 miles away. Political > boundaries...bah :-)?
>>Does anyone recall what other ancient ruins yielded authenticated >
>meteorites outside the Americas as claiming by
>the article they are > found "all around the
>world in ancient ruins". I am thinking Greece, >
>Cyprus and Turkey, but no meteorite comes to
>mind. And the Japanese > one was certainly not found in ruins.?
>>Another tear shed today after reading about the other Grand Canyon >
>>"In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his?
>>collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde Valley?
>>for the first time in nearly 800 yea?
>>One (at least me) wonders whether the "800 year buried piece of
>Canyon > Diablo (Camp Verde piece)" was ever at
>all "on display" on the Native > American
>Sinagua or if it was placed to rest with that
>stone > ceremonially out of sight with respects
>being rendered specifically > NOT to be
>displayed, I am not sure how this statement
>about displaying > could be made in the article
>with any accuracy, and suppose the author >
>really got carried away trying to say the Camp
>Verde piece is on > display in the Verde Vally
>of AZ...but not sure; thanks for the post!?
>>Best wishes,?
>>-----Original Mess
>>From: Michael Groetz <mpg4444 at gmail.com>?
>>To: Meteorite List <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>?
>>Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 8:37 pm?
>>Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star?
>>The tale of a falling star?
>>By Steve Ayers, Staff Reporter?
>>Tuesday, June 09, 2009?
>>CAMP VERDE - George Dawson was no stranger to hard work.?
>>A seasoned construction hand, he traveled extensively throughout?
>>Central America and the American southwest, moving mountains for
>>and, when time allowed, doing some digging on his own for both fun
>>In the spring of 1927, Dawson found himself between jobs. A Phoenix?
>>resident, he loaded his truck with supplies and tools of his trade,?
>>and headed north, hoping the fertile ground of the Verde Valley would?
>>der its ancient treasures.?
>>Pothunters like Dawson knew the valley to be a steady source of
>>for anyone willing to turn over a few stones.?
>>For this tri
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

Prof. Zelimir Gabelica
Universit? de Haute Alsace
3, Rue A. Werner,
F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France
Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94
Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15
Received on Wed 10 Jun 2009 09:59:38 AM PDT

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