[meteorite-list] Magnet canes are evil DONT THINK SO!

From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 13:01:31 -0700
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=BLB1MhkchJwCk68utMtEay4g0AuRFHvfoOUfV_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,
Eric Actually has something of a valid point, I think.
I've heard that using a rare-earth magnet on a planetary meteorite can
realign the magnetic domains within the stone. While that may not
seem too important, some people have studied the magnetic properties
of martian meteorites as a means of trying to understand Mars' ancient
magnetic field; the magnetic domains within older martian basalts were
set in stone when those rocks cooled billions of years ago.
But I'm not sure if this is entirely true. If anyone out there might
have some input on this, I'd be curious to hear more about it.
Thanks,
Jason


On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
> Hi John, List,
>
> Who the heck said I was experienced?! ;) LOL I'm sure there are people who'd
> argue against that... (they'd be wrong, but that doesn't stop the their BS
> now does it?)
>
> No offense meant. I think you took what I was saying personally and the
> wrong way. I never said "magnets are bad". I asked questions about
> contamination...
>
> That said, I still use one. In certain circumstances. Does that make me an
> evil meteorite monger? No, and neither does it make anyone else that uses a
> meteorite stick an evil person.
>
> I asked the question because I don't know about magnetic properties and
> study of these properties in meteorites. I don't really know the importance
> of the magnetic property issue, hence my question to Rob, and the list.
> Logically I would deduce that if you were going to measure the magnetic
> properties of a meteorite you would not want to contaminate the meteorite by
> introducing a source of highly powerful magnetism to the meteorite before
> you measured it. Seems illogical to me. However I could be wrong, and I
> honestly don't know.
>
> Also, in my opinion, (which you have every right to disagree with) if you
> remove a meteorite from it's resting place before recording it's location,
> it dilutes the data to an extent... Granted you can set it back down, take a
> picture, and even record the EXACT GPS location. All the information as far
> as science is concerned is accurate right? No... What the meteorite looked
> like "in-situ" for eons before you ever touched it is gone. The data is gone
> because the meteorite was disturbed by the magnet from it's resting place
> before a picture was taken. Does this matter? People would argue that too.
>
> So technically, you're right, I did come down hard on using magnets. But
> hey, magnets are tough, I'm sure they can take it. I wasn't attacking anyone
> at all, I was questioning the use of magnets with relation to studying
> magnetic properties of meteorites and the seemingly obvious contamination
> using one would cause.
>
> Also, for the record, there's nothing wrong with testing a suspect meteorite
> to see if it "sticks" to a magnet. I do it, everyone I know does it. in fact
> I don't know a meteorite hunter that doesn't carry a neo mag on him/her at
> all times while in the field, and most times anywhere they go.
>
> I will agree 100% with you on your comments:
>
> "...Meteorite Hunting is a fun activity that people of all ages can be
> involved in.... I think any activity that promotes the science, culture, and
> study of them should be encouraged, even looking for them with a magnet on a
> stick!..."
>
> Right on!
>
> Regards,
> Eric
>
>
>
>
>
> On 8/24/2010 11:52 AM, John higgins wrote:
>>
>> Hello Eric,
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> I think your statement is outrageous, especially coming from the creator
>> of the
>> upcoming Meteorite Hunting Magazine. How can you make a statement that is
>> in
>> opposition to what you are promoting?
>> There is nothing wrong with using a meteorite stick!
>> Meteorite Hunting is a fun activity that people of all ages can be
>> involved in.
>> You should know what a special experience it is to be hunting out in the
>> field
>> and find a real meteorite. Sure over time you learn that you should not
>> hold
>> magnets to meteorites, this act will make them useless for certain
>> magnetic
>> experiments. But to say from the door that magnets are bad is kind of
>> ridiculous
>> in my opinion. Everyone knows the first Meteorite test is to see if a
>> magnet
>> sticks. Sure it would be great if all Meteorite hunters were as
>> experienced as
>> you are, but this is not the case, and they cannot be taught to spot a
>> meteorite
>> without the use of a magnet, or first hand experience. That is just the
>> reality
>> that we live in. Almost every collector holds up a magnet to a meteorite
>> to test
>> it, why don't you go attack them for that matter. Meteorite Hunting is
>> fun. I
>> think any activity that promotes the science, culture, and study of them
>> should
>> be encouraged, even looking for them with a magnet on a stick!
>>
>> John Higgins
>> IMCA# 9822
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Meteorites USA<eric at meteoritesusa.com>
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 1:44:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Magnet canes are evil
>>
>> Curious about the magnetic properties of meteorites as well. We all know
>> that
>> you can magnetize metal just by placing it near a powerful magnet.
>>
>> I read yesterday in Richard Kowalski's post about Brother Guy
>> Consolmagno's
>> visit to Tucson. Dr Concolmagno's research also includes the study of
>> magnetic
>> properties of meteorites. I'm sure he's not the only person to study these
>> properties, but it got me to thinking about it. If one does in fact use a
>> magnet
>> cane on a meteorite, do you impart any magnetic field into the meteorite?
>> I
>> would think yes, even if it is small on a scale only readable by the most
>> powerful equipment.
>>
>> My question is does it cause problems with analyzing/testing? Is this a
>> form of
>> contamination?
>>
>> My question would of course then be... Why use a magnetic cane at all?
>>
>> If you think about it, we're "taught" NOT to remove a meteorite from it's
>> original location until we get in-situ photos, and record GPS coordinates
>> of the
>> find. If you use a magnetic cane, the meteorite will be removed from it's
>> ancient resting place as it "snaps" onto the magnet.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/24/2010 10:10 AM, Matson, Robert D. wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Mark wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> As soon as everyone stops using metal detectors and magnet canes
>>>> to look for meteorites then the first Lunars in Europe or USA
>>>> will eventually be found, .... until then!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have never used a magnet cane, nor will I ever, and I always
>>> advise new hunters against their use. A magnet cane is basically
>>> an H-, L-, iron, and stony-iron filter. I sometimes carry an LL6
>>> with me to the desert on the off-chance I'll run into someone using
>>> a magnet cane. That usually "cures" them. ;-)
>>>
>>> --Rob
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>
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Received on Tue 24 Aug 2010 04:01:31 PM PDT