[meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's rock'

From: cdtucson at cox.net <cdtucson_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 14:58:00 -0500
Message-ID: <20100207145800.K9WOQ.576426.imail_at_fed1rmwml37>

hey Bob,
I have since spoken briefly with Twink about this collection around the lake. As an authority on Gold Basin, Twink was kind enough to share with me the facts. I might have this right?
I think she said that after the initial giving to the Smithsonian of the first 20% of meteorites collected at the lake. People were able for a short time to keep their finds. This was great because it contributed to the very fine work of mapping that Jim , twink, Kring and others did. This has since ceased to be the case and it is now again illegal to collect under that particular permit. Even though all of the whole find area is all actually of Federal land. I think she said that the Lake area has special restrictions that the southern area does not have ? . So, if I understand this correctly. You may keep a percentage of finds as long as you get the proper permits. Good luck with that! Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax
---- Bob Loeffler <bobl at peaktopeak.com> wrote: 
> Hi Carl,
> 
> You do have a good point here.  I wish the Gov would let us hunt on Fed land
> without needing to get permits because there are a lot of us who would do
> the right thing and give the found meteorites to them.  I want to find
> meteorites just for the thrill of it, so I would still do it even if I
> couldn't keep what I found.  And maybe the Gov would let me keep one if I
> found a bunch.  Or maybe not.  But in any case, letting meteorites erode
> away is pointless.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cdtucson at cox.net [mailto:cdtucson at cox.net] 
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:40 PM
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Bob Loeffler
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the people's
> rock'
> 
> Bob, 
> Thank you for the response. That is fair to say but the problem with Federal
> land is that it is illegal to pick the stuff up without a permit. So, the
> collection has to be for the government. if you don't pick it up it will rot
> and then nobody will ever get a chance at it. During the mapping of Gold
> Basin. Nobody wanted to bother to collect the material on into the federal
> land because they could not keep it. 100% of the meteorites found on Federal
> area of the gold basin strewnfield had to be given to the smithsonian
> museum. If you look at the map it is very much lighter on the federal owned
> section. Today you will get into big trouble if caught hunting there. 
> But when on state land you are allowed to pick stuff up. that's all I'm
> saying. Why do they differ? State land meteorites get picked up and
> preserved. Federal meteorites get to rot. There must still be tons of
> meteorites yet to be found but never will be due to these stupid laws.  Carl
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> Meteoritemax
> 
> 
> ---- Bob Loeffler <bobl at peaktopeak.com> wrote: 
> > Hi Carl,
> > 
> > > I hate the fact that the Gov. gets to claim treasures found on fed.
> > > land. The fed. land belongs to all of us. Gold basin material found
> > > on Fed. land all went to the smithsonian.
> > 
> > If you don't want the Fed Gov to get the treasures that are found on Fed
> > land, who should get them?  Even you said that the treasures "belong to
> all
> > of us", but if you find something and take it home (and either keep it or
> > sell it), the rest of us don't get to share in the ownership or joy of
> what
> > you found. So then that is not fair because it should belong to all of us,
> > right?  So, the Gov puts the treasure in a museum so all of us can see it.
> > All of the people now have a partial ownership/interest in it, not just
> one
> > or two people.
> > 
> > BTW, I don't work for the Gov. and didn't get paid by anyone to say
> > anything.  :-)  This is just what I think this law is trying to do.  I
> could
> > be wrong.
> > 
> > Regards, 
> > 
> > Bob
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
> > cdtucson at cox.net
> > Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:45 PM
> > To: Adam; George Blahun Jr
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lorton meteorite should be 'the
> people's
> > rock'
> > 
> > George. 
> > Just one moment here. What if the rightful owner of the glasses never
> claims
> > 
> > them? you have no idea who left them. Could have been a visitor asking for
> 
> > directions. Who owns them? The landlord??? Nobody is not the right answer
> > here. 
> > Also, Nobody wants your tree but the key is that it is yours! 
> > What if you are leasing the tree in a business that sells the fruit? Who
> is 
> > responsible then? The owner of the tree or you because you are in legal
> > control 
> > of it. Just asking. 
> > In the case of the contractor. Well, he did discover the treasure inside
> the
> > 
> > wall. What most would have done is haul it off into the truck as he was 
> > contracted to do and never mention it ( haul away the debris) . What he
> did
> > do 
> > is tell the home owner and she wanted all of it. This case ended in all of
> > her 
> > relatives learning of it and the sum was divided many ways between all of
> > them. 
> > She got greedy and lost more than she gained . I love this case because
> > greed 
> > did not prevail. Her greed cost her mucho dineros . As a side note the 
> > contractor did the right thing but it came down to. "No good deed goes 
> > unpunished". As much as I hate to say that. 
> >  I was an Architect/contractor and I know most of my subs would have
> simply 
> > hauled away the envelope with the rest of the debris, medicine cabinet and
> > all. 
> > Plus she was lucky the envelope had her relatives name on it because it
> > might 
> > have belonged to a previous home owner. all of this played out in court.
> > which 
> > is why I want to see this in court. 
> > I hate the fact that the Gov. gets to claim treasures found on fed. land.
> > The 
> > fed. land belongs to all of us. Gold basin material found on Fed. land all
> > went 
> > to the smithsonian. That is why the strewn field looks so bottom heavy.
> Take
> > 
> > care and thank you.. Carl 
> > -- 
> > Carl or Debbie Esparza 
> > Meteoritemax 
> >  
> > --
> > Carl or Debbie Esparza
> > Meteoritemax
> > 
> > 
> > ---- George Blahun Jr <ks1u at att.net> wrote: 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Carl:
> > >     Hello and thanks for your comments and point of view.  I actually
> > didn't intend for this to be taken as cut and  dry.  I do come down on the
> > side of the land owners, but my reference to the EM Spectrum implies that
> > there is always another point of view.  If you were unfortunate enough to
> be
> > hit by a meteorite on someone else's property, I believe you'd be entitled
> > to damages for your injury and pain and suffering.   If you were walking
> on
> > my property here in CT and one of my black walnut trees fell on you, you
> > could (and should) file a claim against my home owners policy, but I don't
> > think you'd get to keep the black walnut tree which is probably  worth
> about
> > 10K for the wood.  
> > >      In your example of the dollar bill, a fairly insignificant amount
> if
> > you can afford to see a doctor, the dollar probably goes to the finder.
> But
> > if you drop your Maui Jim sunglasses there, you still have the right to
> them
> > and neither the finder nor the doctor nor the landlord owns them.  Of
> course
> > most communities have a procedure for claiming a lost and found, unlike a
> > space rock.  This series of events changes if the object which hits you is
> > from a military satellite.   They'd deny any responsibility but want it
> back
> > anyhow. 
> > > 
> > >     There was a court case recently where a contractor was removing a
> wall
> > in a house and found a bunch of money which had been hidden in there for
> > decades.  The contractor tried to claim it using the old legal defense of
> > "finders keepers losers weepers"  but the courts said, no.  
> > >     I guess we all have a slight bias when interpreting the law and what
> > constitutes ownership.  This no doubt determines which side of this issue
> we
> > each come down on.
> > > 
> > > George
> > > 
> > > 
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Received on Sun 07 Feb 2010 02:58:00 PM PST


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