[meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar values come from?

From: Michael Blood <mlblood_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:47:36 -0800
Message-ID: <C7A2E768.B99C%mlblood_at_cox.net>

Hi Michael and all,
        It reminds me of the 60s when the cops made a bust on
Like 5 Kilos of pot and said "it has a street value of $10,000!"
Of course, in those days pot was not NEARLY as potent as
I hear it is today (due to massive concentration of THC through
"better genetics") and sold at that time for $10 a "lid" which
Was an oz. - so, $360 for a Kilo sold by the "lid." Of course, if
you bought a whole Kilo, it was more like $95 for very good stuff
on Height Street - which brought the best price on the west coast
And you could sell a whole suitcase full just walking down Heigt
Like a paper boy saying, "Kilos, Kilos, anyone want a Kilo?"
And sell them all 1 to 3 at a time.
        So, the cops and the news media (some of the news people
HAD to know this was BS from first hand experience) would
Inflate a stash worth less than $500-$1,800max to "$10K street
value!" (heard this figure was "justified" by figuring $1 per
"Joint," which, of course, no one bought or sold by then - though
I hear they did back in the day when the beatniks and jazz
musicians were the primary indulgers of pot) and besides, those
would have been the thinnest joints ever seen by man.
        Unfortunately, for meteorite dealers, the mark up is not
What it was for pot in the 60s - but, of course, there is a mark
Up or no one could be a dealer and hunting meteorites would
Be exclusively a non-profit hobby.
        The point is, while it might take more than a lifetime to sell
A large meteorite 1 gram at a time, yes, a TV show IS designed
To attract viewers and what could be more appealing than science
Mixed with TREASURE HUNTING! with two of the nicest guys
In the meteorite community & commentary by a respected leading
Scientist in a lab?
        As far as overinflating prices farmers may want, etc. THAT
Has been going on a very long time.
        Best wishes, Michael


On 2/18/10 4:26 AM, "Michael Gilmer" <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Steve, Jason and List,
>
> I woke up this morning with the intention of writing a thoughtful
> reply to Steve's last post, but Jason Utas already beat me to it.
>
> I wasn't trying to be critical. I like the show a lot and have not
> missed an episode yet. My wife and I make time to watch it every
> Wednesday, and we enjoy it together. I have fun pointing out the
> people I "know" while watching the show. It's funny because Dr.
> Garvie recently invited me to come to ASU and smell their Murchison
> samples and then I said to my wife - "Hey look, that's the guy who
> said I can come smell his meteorites.", and she got a laugh out of
> that. It's fun a show and I hope it continues to be successful - not
> just for Steve and Geoff (which kudos to them), but for the whole
> meteorite community.
>
> But (you knew there was a but!), I have some reservations about the
> emphasis on dollar amounts. The network and producers know that
> nothing motivates the general public like money and that in this
> economy, treasure hunting is very popular. Let's face it, not
> everyone shares our sometimes-irrational love of space rocks. So I
> can imagine the network/producers (or whoever calls these types of
> shots) pushing for more emphasis on the profit angle of meteorite
> hunting - to keep the lay public interested and watching the show.
> That angle alone won't snag new viewers who are completely
> uninterested in meteorites, but it may convince a few who are sitting
> on the fence to watch.
>
> Jason and Steve, you both raise good points. Something is only worth
> what someone will pay for it. I once paid $100 for a 1mg speck of
> Sylacauga. That is an astounding $100,000.00 a gram. But, I
> seriously doubt I could sell a 1-gram fragment of Sylacauga for $100K.
> We may know the ways of the market and how collectors spend their
> money, but the general lay public does not. Those of us reading this
> on the List, we know what Steve and Jason just said is true. But I
> can imagine a newbie watching the show and walking away with the idea
> that he can find a half-million dollar rock (that is not a planetary
> and weighs less than 1 kilo) in the desert and actually get that much
> money for it at auction from Christies or some other big auction
> house. We know the realities of the market - some of the viewers
> probably do not. It would be nice to hear Steve or Geoff mention
> something along the lines of what Steve just posted - that yes, the
> specimen is "worth" that much, but it will probably never bring that
> much from a sale. The only way a million-dollar (or half-million
> dollar) meteorite is going to bring in that much money is if the owner
> insures it, then it burns up in a house fire, and the insurance
> company cuts a big check for it.
>
> As for Tagish Lake - only a government would pay that kind of money
> for something. Most private individuals couldn't afford to fork over
> almost a million dollars for a 800-gram briquette. In the US, the
> finder of that 800 gram specimen would still be sitting on it and
> hoping for a sale someday. (or an insured house fire)
>
> Don't get me wrong. I am not picking on Sonny's awesome specimen.
> That is truly an amazing find and any meteorite hunter would cream
> himself upon finding it. The only thing better would be if Sonny
> found the first US lunaite. And my dollar amount gripe was
> specifically targeted at Sonny's CM1. Even those dry lake bed
> weathered chondrites seem overpriced at $1.50 a gram or $2 a gram. I
> guess they are probably worth that much now because they have been on
> TV, but I can buy prettier weathered ordinary-chondrites from NWA for
> a 20 cents a gram. A collector looking for a cool rock that was on TV
> and was found by a famous meteorite hunter will pay extra for an OC
> from Meteorite Men - but most collectors who buy weathered OC's are
> also the types who look for bargains and will buy the stones that cost
> .20 cents a gram and pass on the more expensive ones, regardless of
> their connection to TV. Heck, I just traded 100 grams of trinitite
> for 4000 grams of weathered uNWA stones. I won't say what my cost on
> trinitite is, but I can say that the batch of uNWA I traded for is
> prettier than the dry lake bed specimens (for the most part, I do have
> some UGLY ones though) and my cost was less than $1 a gram -
> substantially less. (FWIW, the ugliest ones are going into a rock
> tumbler)
>
> I just don't want this emphasis on dollar values to come back and bite
> us in the ass. I can imagine Steve (or any hunter) going up to some
> landowner and attempting to broker a deal to hunt on the land, and the
> landowner will expect $10,000 for every 100-gram OC that is pulled out
> of the dirt on his land - because there is an inflated sense of what
> these stones are worth. On the List, we know that a meteorite's
> stated value often has an asterisk next to it, and I think it's
> important that the general public knows that as well.
>
> Best regards and happy huntings,
>
> MikeG
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2/18/10, meteorhntr at aol.com <meteorhntr at aol.com> wrote:
>> Jason,
>>
>> I agree getting $700,000 in green bills is a long shot, but if it can be
>> traded for, say 14 items each in the $50,000 range, and those could be
>> converted to green cash, is it wrong to say it is worth that.
>>
>> Need I remind everyone that the finder of the Tagish Lake 800 gram rock
>> (similar in size and composition as Sonny's) got $800,000 in Canadian money
>> for his find.
>>
>> Sonny is in the business, and as such, he really might realize $700k for his
>> CM1 rock over time. Could he take it to a pawn shop in vegas and get
>> $700,000? No, I would think not.
>>
>> But if someone else finds a CM1 here in the US and wants to sell theirs for
>> $72/g ($50,000 / 699g) then cool.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
>> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 21:29:05
>> To: Meteorite-list<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar values
>> comefrom?
>>
>> Hell Mike, Steve, and List,
>> Right, but you're applying the price per gram that would apply to
>> small pieces in retail to a much larger stone.
>> A single gram may be worth a thousand dollars (in this case, it's
>> probably justified, given what comparable material is known to sell
>> for), but the simple fact of the matter is that it would take decades
>> to sell off 700 grams at that price in small pieces. Ask any dealer
>> who's held a stable asking price for material for which they are the
>> only source.
>> As a complete stone, I estimate that the highest offer on it would
>> reach $60-70,000. Don't get me wrong - it could sell for more,
>> but...it's wholesale.
>> Yes, it might be "worth" more in a sense, but I believe that the
>> general consensus here has always been that these rocks are "worth"
>> what people were willing to pay for them. I haven't asked Sonny, but
>> based on what I know of the market, I doubt that he's gotten an offer
>> as high as 100k for it. He might well get a better offer, but that
>> would make it one of the more costly meteorites to actually sell - in
>> the past decade.
>>
>> So, no. I think it's safe to say that $700,000 is not close to a
>> reasonable estimate.
>> Even if you assume $1000/g for smaller pieces, you're not taking
>> cutting losses into account, which would take it to at most $500k, or
>> thereabouts, and it would take so long to sell that simply stating a
>> price like that is rather deceptive.
>>
>> There's a reason that the asking price for the 420kg Fukang main mass
>> is in the 2-3 million dollar range (about $5-6/g), as opposed to being
>> $16.8 million. Fukang may be "worth" $40/g. That doesn't mean that a
>> large piece is worth that much.
>>
>> And the same principle applies across the board - a single acre of
>> land will run you more per acre than will an acre of land in a
>> hundred-acre parcel. And if you buy ten cars from a dealer, they'll
>> probably give you something of a discount, whereas if you buy only
>> one...not so much.
>>
>> I appreciate the optimistic quote from the market's perspective,
>> but...it's just not reasonable to say that the rock is worth that much
>> when it wouldn't fetch that on the market.
>>
>> Jason
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 7:40 PM, <meteorhntr at aol.com> wrote:
>>> Hi MikeG and List,
>>>
>>> In this episode, Sony's CM1 is one of only two found outside of
>>> Antarctica. The other one, as I understand, sold out quickly at several
>>> thousand dollars per gram. Sony has placed a value of $1,000 per gram thus
>>> the estimation of his 699g rock at $700,000 is probably reasonable for a
>>> US find.
>>>
>>> I was quoted as saying these ordinary chondrite pieces were probably worth
>>> $1 per gram but I will probably list them on eBay for $5 per gram (for the
>>> 2-10g size pieces) and see how they do.
>>>
>>> Steve Arnold
>>>
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
>>> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:11:37
>>> To: <Metorman46 at aol.com>
>>> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Where do the dollar values come
>>> from?
>>>
>>> Hi Folks,
>>>
>>> Is it just me, or do the dollar values for some of the meteorites
>>> shown on Meteorite Men seem a little inflated? This is not a
>>> criticism, but just a straight question. As a collector and part-time
>>> dealer, the prices given for some of these specimens seems a bit on
>>> the optimistic side.
>>>
>>>> From a dealer's perspective, if the public thinks a meteorite is
>>> worth more than it actually is, the dealer charge more for them.
>>>
>>>> From a hunter's perspective, if the public thinks a meteorite is worth
>>> more than it actually is, they can have unrealistic expectations for
>>> what their rocks are worth.
>>>
>>> Steve has spoken about this on the List previously, because landowners
>>> will have unrealistic expectations of what their specimens are worth -
>>> and this gives hunters fits who are trying to buy specimens or cut
>>> deals with landowners.
>>>
>>> So, where exactly are these dollar values coming from? Who is setting
>>> them and putting them on the screen during the final edit?
>>>
>>> Best regards and happy hunting,
>>>
>>> MikeG
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/17/10, Metorman46 at aol.com <Metorman46 at aol.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Michael;
>>>>
>>>> I highlighted your statement from a previous post because i think it says
>>>> all that can simply be said about their great program.It energizes me to
>>>> watch Geoff and Steve do the thing that most of the worlds meteorite
>>>> collectors would like to be doing.But,we are too busy with our work- a-
>>>> world lives
>>>> to ever do much of that kind of activity.It sure is pleasant to sit in
>>>> an
>>>> easy chair,warm or cool and enjoy seeing it done while educating the
>>>> world
>>>> community about the joy of the hunt and even profitable sometimes.There
>>>> probably will be a lot of new interest in meteorites and collecting
>>>> them.(Get
>>>> ready dealers and collectors that sell specimens).It"s a coming!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to all for the great posts;Herman Archer IMCA # 2770
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
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>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Mike Gilmer
>>> http://www.galactic-stone.com
>>> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ______________________________________________
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>
Received on Thu 18 Feb 2010 03:47:36 PM PST