[meteorite-list] Meteors, by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished in 1925

From: Shawn Alan <photophlow_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 02:04:53 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <515801.68980.qm_at_web113608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi Mike and List
?
Clearly I find it funny that your saying your book is the real deal and the one posted?on the link isn't from him. Now why do you think yours is the real deal? You never explained where you got the book with his signature, now did you. Now I find this to be funny. You state that
?
"Hopefully you will agree that these were not done by the same person.
To my eye it looks like yours was done by a female as the letters have
such large loops."? you also go on to say ......
?
"It in no way makes them an expert in recognizing his signature. I
really takes a side by side comparison to do this."
?
O really. so?when did you become a hand writing analysis expert? You said yourself the the image on the website I posted on the List?was done by a female. How do you know that it was written by a female? Also you even said yourself
?
"Obviously you believe that by being related to someone you could
recognize their signature expertly. I do not agree with you. I would
have to have my a known copy of my wife's signature to compare it to
another to be certain it is hers."
?
Again Mike, here you go into saying that?you wouldn't be able to tell by your wife's signature unless you had copies to compare?it?to. So how does it give you a right to say that?the signing was done by a female on the link I provided to the list???
?
http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/11388383_xtf3A#800281414_E7khp
?
But I think your over looking something that I have stated. I have been communicating with the individual that posted the book and he emailed me back and said .....
?
?
Hi Shawn:
?
???? Dr. LaPaz often wrote his name in a book as soon
as he received it.? That is his writing "LaPaz") on the inside
front?cover of Meteors.? All notations in the book (I think they
are all in red ink) are his.
?
Ok, the key words is Dr LaPaz?wrote his name in his books. Now do you get what I said about....

"Lastly, another thing to remember, signing your name in a book and
doing a signature for some fan can hold different signatures?" and you say ....
?
"Sorry don't really understand your point here so I cannot comment on it."
?
So lets say I buy a book and?I sign my name in it. Now I wouldnt do a signature in the book because signatures are hard to read, I would SIGN my name in the book instead. Now if I was going to do?a signature on a document, I would use my signature, or signature to sign someones book. I think you have have done this before, signing someting with your name on it. Now I have something for you to look at and Listers
?
?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48262799 at N03/4422192244/
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Ok now what I did is?I took your signature which is the bottom and took the signing of his name from the website and superimposed them and scaled down the size. Now its kinda odd to me when you look at them superimposed some simularites?show up.?The size and points were where the the letter meet match up. Look at the?L and the P they both have a simulare shapes. But this is?the ticker, look at the?P in the?left corner and see the little hook that ends at the?P and now look at the hook that ends on your P what do?I see a hook but its tighter. I would find this?very odd that a women that you stated wrote in the book would have very simular writing patterns as Dr LaPaz signature. What I am concluding and had concluded before I saw your one signature is that maybe :)??another thing to remember, signing your name in a book and doing a signature for some fan can hold different signatures?"
?
Now with this said I would find this book rare in a since that he signed his name in the book and everyone else including you have multipal signatures by Dr LaPaz. Now what would be more unquie,?a book he personal owned and signed, which has mathmatical notations he wrote, and where the book came from his estate, or a book he signed with his signature for a fan?
?
Thank you
Shawn Alan
?

[meteorite-list] Meteors, by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished in 1925Mike Jensen meteoriteplaya at gmail.com
Wed Mar 10 02:44:25 EST 2010


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Hi Shawn

You wrote;

On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 5:46 PM, Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Mike and List,

>

> Hi Mike you keep referring to a signature and that it doesn't match up to yours. But I haven't seen this "signature", why haven't you provided a link to quote un quote the signature in your book?>


I guess I touched a nerve here with you. You obviously you don't
believe that there is any chance in the world what so ever that
someone other than LaPaz could have put that signature in the book. So
I seriously doubt that there is anything I could do to convince you
otherwise.
So I'll show you mine if you show me yours.
Just kidding, here it is;
http://picasaweb.google.com/109538410126952617536/LaPazSignature?feat=directlink
It is from his book Space Nomads.

Here is yours;
http://picasaweb.google.com/109538410126952617536/LaPazSignature?feat=directlink

Hopefully you will agree that these were not done by the same person.
To my eye it looks like yours was done by a female as the letters have
such large loops.

Now all you have to do is show me another signature of Dr. LaPaz that
matches yours and I will drop the subject.


<You had also stated " I don't believe just because you knew LaPaz
that makes one an expert in recognizing his signature." >

Obviously you believe that by being related to someone you could
recognize their signature expertly. I do not agree with you. I would
have to have my a known copy of my wife's signature to compare it to
another to be certain it is hers.

<Ok I am confused, you just said if this person knew Dr LaPaz that
doesn't make him an expert in recognizing his signature but what makes
you an expert?>

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I never said I was an expert in
recgonizing Dr LaPaz signature. I only said it does not compare at all
to the signature that I have for him.


<Did you work with him personal, did you marry his daughter, do you
have control over his estate, are you family with Dr LaPaz? The
individual that posted the images of the book married Dr LaPaz
daughter. Hes in control of Dr LaPaz estate, not to mention hes family
and has worked with him. I think that makes this individual an expert
don't you think?>

It in no way makes them an expert in recognizing his signature. I
really takes a side by side comparison to do this.


>

> As from a historical stand point I can see the significance can be important from that this book was used personally by Dr LaPaz. Not only is it signed by him it also has notations of mathematical formulas by him. True there is more of a market for Nininger, but again it depends on which market your referring to. On an academic/scientific level I would feel that this book would be great significance.>


Again I understand that you believe this is a historically important
book. I was just trying to answer your question to the list if
everyone else thought this was true. I gave my reasons why I did not
agree with you. Obviously all you really wanted to hear was total
support for your now obvious point that it is a historically important
book. This is just one point that we will not agree on. Sorry.

<Now about your book where did you get it?>

I really don't remember but do know it was probably not directly from
his estate. Though it is possible as I have bought from the same guy
you bought this book from as well.


<Lastly, another thing to remember, signing your name in a book and
doing a signature for some fan can hold different signatures?>

Sorry don't really understand your point here so I cannot comment on it.



Mike


Mike Jensen Meteorites
16730 E Ada PL
Aurora, CO 80017-3137
USA
720-949-6220
IMCA 4264
website: www.jensenmeteorites.com


>

>

> http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/11388383_xtf3A#800281414_E7khp

>

>

>

> Shawn Alan

>

>

>

>

> [meteorite-list] Meteors, by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished in 1925

> Mike Jensen meteoriteplaya at gmail.com

> Tue Mar 9 17:46:53 EST 2010

>

> * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Meteors, by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished in 1925

> * Next message: [meteorite-list] it is a sad day

> * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

>

> Hi Shawn

>

> Well my opinion and that is all it is is based on a comparison of his

> known signature and the signature that you showed me in the link are

> very different. As I mentioned I have seen hundreds of books inscribed

> in much the same manner as the LaPaz book especially in academic

> circles.

>

> If it is important for you to know for sure you should ask the seller

> to provide you with a known signature of LaPaz. I don't believe just

> because you knew LaPaz that makes one an expert in recognizing his

> signature. But if you are happy with the signature then we can end our

> conversation. I just know if I were selling the book I would not be

> selling it as inscribed by LaPaz. I would mention the marks and the

> possible link to LaPaz but nothing more than that.

>

> As to the collectiblility based on my over 15 years buying and selling

> books meteorite books no one has ever asked me for a meteorite book

> signed by anyone but Nininger. Don't forget this book is not even a

> book that was authored by him it was just in his library.

>

> If I understand your original question you were interested in its

> historical value/interest to the general population of meteorite

> historians. So for you it is highly collectible but to most people it

> has little additional interest.

>

>

> Mike

>

>

> Mike Jensen Meteorites

> 16730 E Ada PL

> Aurora, CO 80017-3137

> USA

> 720-949-6220

> IMCA 4264

> website: www.jensenmeteorites.com

>

>

>

> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com> wrote:

>

>> Hello Mike and List,

>

>>

>

>> Mike, I had made a comment or if you will an observation of The Meteors book by C.P. Oliver, an original copy published in 1925, from Dr. LaPaz personal library/estate that has notations and been signed by Dr LaPaz last night. Here is a link to the book

>

>>

>

>> http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/11388383_xtf3A#800281414_E7khp

>

>>

>

>> Mike you had said as quoted

>

>>

>

>> "The book has not been signed by LaPaz but someone has just put his name in it. For some

>

>> reason it was and I believe still is a common practice to have a

>

>> grad

>

>>

>

>> student or possibly a secretary do this.... I do consider myself somewhat of a "meteorite historian""

>

>>

>

>> But I have to disagree with you and I would have to say the book was signed by Dr LaPaz and the notation marks are by him as well in the book. The ind individual that posted the images knew Dr LaPaz very well and married one of Dr LaPaz daughters, I guess this makes the individual family. This is what he had said,

>

>>

>

>> Hi

>

>> Shawn:

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> Dr. LaPaz

>

>> often wrote his name in a book as

>

>> soon

>

>> as he received it. That is his writing "LaPaz") on the inside

>

>> front cover of Meteors. All notations in the book (I think

>

>> they

>

>> are all in red ink) are his.

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> From a hitorian perspective I think the collectabilty of this book is great for a couple reasons. The book comes from Dr LaPaz estate, there are notations made by Dr LaPaz, and that Dr LaPaz signed the book. Also not to mention the book is the first edition, printed from 1925. To own or view something of that nature would be great :)

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> Shawn Alan

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>>

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>>

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>>

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>>

>

>>

>

>>

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>>

>

>> [meteorite-list] Meteors, by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished in 1925

>

>> Mike Jensen meteoriteplaya at gmail.com

>

>> Tue Mar 9 10:00:35 EST 2010

>

>>

>

>> * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Meteors, by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished in 1925

>

>> * Next message: [meteorite-list] It is a sad day.....

>

>> * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

>

>>

>

>> Hi Shawn

>

>>

>

>> I have a couple of comments about the book. The book has not been

>

>> signed by LaPaz but someone has just put his name in it. For some

>

>> reason it was and I believe still is a common practice to have a grad

>

>> student or possibly a secretary do this. I have several examples of

>

>> this in my library. I also have one I believe genuine copy of a signed

>

>> book of his in my library. The book is Space Nomads.

>

>> As for the interest in the book I have three words Nininger, Nininger,

>

>> Nininger. In other words most other signed books seem to have little

>

>> additional value either monetarily or historically if they are signed.

>

>> I do consider myself somewhat of a "meteorite historian" and know

>

>> there are several other amateurs out there as well. So I do appreciate

>

>> the types of items that fall into this category there just are not a

>

>> significant amount of others that find them important enough to

>

>> collect.

>

>> As for the University of New Mexico my guess is they would not be too

>

>> interested in the book as they have limited funds and limited space.

>

>> Though as I mentioned it would only be a guess.

>

>>

>

>> Mike

>

>>

>

>>

>

>>

>

>> Mike Jensen Meteorites

>

>> 16730 E Ada PL

>

>> Aurora, CO 80017-3137

>

>> USA

>

>> 720-949-6220

>

>> IMCA 4264

>

>> website: www.jensenmeteorites.com

>

>>

>

>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com> wrote:

>

>>

>

>>> Hello Lister,

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>> Here is something I found on the Internet about the book called Meteors by C. P. Oliver , published in 1925, which was highly regarded in the early days of the study of meteors and meteorites. Here is a link

>

>>

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>>>

>

>>

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>>> http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/11388383_xtf3A#800281843_WPKqj

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>>

>

>>>

>

>>

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>>> to an original copy printed in 1925, from Lincoln LaPaz personal library, which has also been autographed by Dr LaPaz. For those who don't know, Dr LaPaz was the founder of the Institute of Meteoritics at the University of New Mexico. Within the book there are several pages with notation marks made by Dr LaPaz and autographed by him.

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

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>>> Now would this book have any historical significance to meteorite historians or the University of New Mexico? Does something of this nature come up often in the meteorite market and is there a collectiblity for items like this for collecters or institutions?

>

>>

>

>>>

>

>>

>

>>> Shawn Alan

>

>>

>

>>> ______________________________________________

>

>>

>

>>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html

>

>>

>

>>> Meteorite-list mailing list

>

>>

>

>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

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>>

>

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>>>

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>>

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Received on Wed 10 Mar 2010 05:04:53 AM PST