From: MexicoDoug <mexicodoug_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 03:16:08 -0400
Message-ID: <8CE2D202AA79C0B-1F54-18D39_at_webmail-m073.sysops.aol.com>

I wrote:

"a meteorwrong by most definitions is natural material than can be
confused with an authentic meteorite out in the field. This is a

The present case is the same as the apple colored incorrectites faked
on eBay which are described as moldavites.

Let me introduce the term INCORRECTITES for tektite-wrongs just to keep
them separate as we like to do.

Since I generalized when all I meant was to focus on the
pseudopallasite for which it is ok:

A *meteorwrong* by most definitions is a material of possible
meteoritic origin which was found with no prior information and
requires confirmation by an individual skilled in recognizing
meteorites by scientific means.

The etymology comes from grasshopper asking Master Po whether he has
found a meteorite after spending many moons improving his search
techniques, producing a rock that thus far the junior cannot rule out.
Master Po, infinitely more practiced, immediately shouts out
"Meteorwrong!", thus maintaining the proper meteoritical hierarchy by
keeping grasshopper's ego in check and sending grasshopper into the
fields for several more moons until he can do better... this case
specifically does not apply when the finder knew that the material was
terrestrial and was engaged in fraud...because the finder already knew
what it was and thus, never had a wrong, since there was never any
doubt it was terrestrial.

A *counterfeit meteorite* is a material that has been manufactured
specifically to appear to be a meteorite.

A *pseudometeorite* is any material that gained acceptance as a
possible meteorite but was later shown to be terrestrial of origin.

Just suggestions, but IMO a good idea.

Many of us have stories of counterfeit meteorites. Some time I would
like to share my best one, I was deceived analogous to the "Shirokovsky
Pallasite" pseudometeorite and purchased. The difference was that it
was manufactured by the sagest peasant in a village and I am certain it
would have most of the astute list members to the cleaners (as in -
emptied their wallet) as well. I don't share this anecdote because
it's simply not a good idea in case some perfects its application -
very scary.

The above are just a pile of opinions!
Kindest wishes

-----Original Message-----
From: MexicoDoug <mexicodoug at aim.com>
To: raremeteorites at yahoo.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Fri, Aug 19, 2011 9:51 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Shirokovsky

Adam wrote:?
"I see Shirokovsky as being off topic"?
I agree and would keep my mouth shut iof I thought it were an innocent
scam that was over and reparations made.?
Since I agree with Adam as such this will be my only post, since what
is on topic, interestingly, is clarifying that it is not a
*meteorwrong*.. - a meteorwrong by most definitions is natural
material than can be confused with an authentic meteorite out in the
field. This is not that case, this is the case of the apple colored
moldavites faked on eBay. This is a *PSEUDOMETEORITE* and that term is
doing it a favor, and we should IMO all be very clear about that for
the mutual benefit of all of our collections and future material that
could enter them.?
Shirokovsky may elicit the Pavlovian Dogs salivation in collectors that
haven't been soiled by it. You know - save that salivation for the
real stuff, Shirokovsky isn't even in the category of a blow-up
meteorite doll. There is nothing technologically interesting about
Shirokovsky, the matrix is nothing better than you can find in a cheap
faux bead shop, and why people think it would have an etch pattern is
beyond me. The only reason to have it is because when you drive by an
accident on the highway and see an accident with blood and guts, you
have to stop and cause everyone else a traffic jam as you gawk. And
then you have to tell everyone else, yes, look I have a piece of that
corpse on the road, look at me!?
I wouldn't feel this way at all if the story were all closed and those
who have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars (yes, the amount is
correct) were ok and the crooks in jail. But the collective memory
seems to mean nothing even if we can learn from our past. Everything
would be cool in the collectible category if there were a fixed amount
of Shirokovsky out there.?
It is not all accounted for and it gives someone else the idea of
manufacturing other meteorites; why, instead of getting locked up for
stealing from several collectors and causing all kinds of business
heartache beyond the active imagination of many listmembers, the
message is clear. Make a Shitpkovsky fake, if you get caught, be
nowhere to be found and burn the people who trusted you, cause a great
deal of pollutuion that everyone else has to clean up (the equivalent
of the Exxon Valdez, and we all cleaned it up), and then appear 10
years later selling more of it like war memorabilia from the dark side
and getting people to actually argue it is a good thing to have in
Huuumpt. I still remember being at a function 3 years ago where the
big meteorite dealer insisted to an ignorant crowd that his many
Shirokovsky pseudometeorites. He sold them for $25/g and many just
three years ago painted me as someone who didn't know since he was the
expert (ha).?
Here's what the serious problem is: the material was all controlled
before by the dealer terrorists and collector rapists. If you bought a
piece of this suckerite from one of the original good faith dealers,
you did a fine thing to help bail them out and had the cute thing to
discuss it in a charitable show and tell. But - Now assigning a
collection value to new material all you are doing is having money
chase the masses that were never cut. And as we all know, when money
chases, money gets. And - guess where this new material is coming
Kindest wishes?
-----Original Message-----?
From: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>?
To: Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>?
Sent: Fri, Aug 19, 2011 5:38 pm?
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Shirokovsky?
I guess collecting artifacts has made me leery about fakes. Get caught
with one?
fake artifact and it will put your entire collection in question.? It
is best to?
get artifacts papered and destroy any that have been "killed" by an
authenticator. I see Shirokovsky as being off topic since it is not a
and is was only produced in order to defraud honest collectors out of
their hard?
earned money.??
If you want a piece of a recycled old Ford motor block in your
collection, that?
is your business.? To me, it is garbage and so are the people who
produced it!?
----- Original Message -----?
From: Bernd V. Pauli <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>?
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com?
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 1:50 PM?
Subject: [meteorite-list] Shirokovsky?
Hello All,?
Shirokovsky is terrestrial, it is a pseudo-meteorite, it is man-made!?
- does not contain typical accessory phases of stony-iron meteorites?
- accessory phases completely atypical?
- Olivine has a terrestrial oxygen isotopic composition?
- Pt/Ir ratio similar to that of terrestrial Cu-Ni ore deposits?
- has never been in space (noble gases no cosmic component!)?
- absence of cosmic-ray tracks corroborates noble gas study results (=?
- Olivine TL spectra similar to terrestrial peridotites?
Conclusion: Shirokovsky is manufactured, man-made!?
As for its nickel contents, see also the entry in the (online)
... and, yes, I have a thin 2.7 gr slice of Shirokovsky with
I got that pseudo-pallasite in 2003 from Eric Olson. It doesn't pollute
collection but it sure looks a bit "pale-faced" when sitting next to a
pallasite like Esquel, Brenham, Admire, etc.?
Visit the Archives at
Meteorite-list mailing list?
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com?
Visit the Archives at
Meteorite-list mailing list?
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com?
Received on Sat 20 Aug 2011 03:16:08 AM PDT

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