[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day

From: Jeff Grossman <jngrossman_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2013 11:04:08 -0500
Message-ID: <50EAF1F8.7040203_at_gmail.com>

I'm not sure if the message below got sent... getting weird bounce
messages fr
On 1/5/2013 9:25 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:
> I should add: my first two categories are types of falls, whereas the
> last three are types of finds.
>
> Jeff
>
> On 1/5/2013 8:12 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:
>> In all seriousness, I have considered refining, or at least
>> qualifying the definition of "fall." The categories I've considered
>> are these, and the definitions are first passes:
>>
>> Observed fall: observed to fall, either visually or with instruments,
>> and collected soon after the event. The event was well documented.
>> Physical evidence associated with the collected meteorites is
>> consistent with a fresh fall, or, when collection does not occur
>> immediately, directly points to a fall at the time of the observed
>> event.
>>
>> Unobserved fall: No observations were made of a fall event, but
>> physical evidence conclusively points to a fall on a specific date or
>> within a very narrow range of dates.
>>
>> Probable fall: In these cases, there was a well-documented meteor
>> event with characteristics consistent with a meteorite fall, followed
>> by the collection of meteorites some time later. There is a strong
>> likelihood that the meteorite fell in the observed event, but
>> physical evidence is not fully conclusive.
>>
>> Possible fall: The same situation as a probable fall, but there is
>> significant doubt about whether the meteorite is connected to the
>> event or about the reliability of the observations of the event.
>>
>> Doubtful fall: The same situation as a possible fall, but there is a
>> high degree of doubt.
>>
>> This was all suggested by the circumstances surrounding the Bene?ov
>> (a) and (b) meteorites, which I would have put in the "possible fall"
>> category, if such a thing existed.
>>
>> Jeff



>>
>> On 1/4/2013 8:57 PM, Michael Farmer wrote:
>>> I find this new attempt to change terminology disturbing. I have
>>> hundreds of old catalogs from the top museums and dealers from more
>>> than 200 years ago till today, all of them list falls and finds.
>>> None of them discuss unobserved falls as an acceptable alternative.
>>> Are we really ready to just accept anything thrown out there, and
>>> watch as all manner of BS is used to discredit hundreds of years of
>>> accepted terminology?
>>> My private collection focuses on witnessed falls, with date and time
>>> and science to back it up.
>>> I am not interested in another group which would include every
>>> meteorite ever to have fallen, since they did actually all fall at
>>> some point.
>>> Well, I guess Anne can delete her birthday fall calendar page since
>>> now we can simply put every NWA on any date you choose to believe it
>>> might have possibly fallen:).
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael Farmer
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 6:47 PM, "Mike Bandli" <fuzzfoot at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If a meteorite falls from the sky and no one is there to hear it,
>>>> does it
>>>> make a sound?
>>>>
>>>> ;^]
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------
>>>> Mike Bandli
>>>> Historic Meteorites
>>>> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
>>>> and join us on Facebook:
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>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
>>>> hall at meteorhall.com
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 5:36 PM
>>>> To: Anne Black
>>>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; valparint at aol.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
>>>>
>>>> Right, Anne. That is why they are referred to as a "Fall" or a "Find".
>>>> Concise!
>>>> Cheers, Fred Hall
>>>>
>>>>> Every single meteorite ever found on Earth is necessarily the result
>>>>> of a fall, they are not native to Earth. The only difference is that
>>>>> some falls are seen, witnessed, and some, the vast majoriry, are not.
>>>>>
>>>>> So calling them Observed or Unobserved falls is logical. That is what
>>>>> happened to all of them.
>>>>> That is simple reality.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anne M. Black
>>>>> www.IMPACTIKA.com
>>>>> IMPACTIKA at aol.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> tFrom: hall <hall at meteorhall.com>
>>>>> To: Michael Farmer <mike at meteoriteguy.com>
>>>>> Cc: meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; valparint
>>>>> <valparint at aol.com>
>>>>> Sent: Fri, Jan 4, 2013 6:13 pm
>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> An "unobserved fall" is two words to describe the one word that
>>>>> has
>>>>> been used for a century, "Find". The one word "Find" is good enough
>>>>> for the Catalogue of Meteorites, it was good enough for Harvey
>>>>> Nininger, and it is what I shall always use. Keep it concise.
>>>>> Regards, Fred Hall
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That would make sense for say New Orleans, where a stone went through
>>>>> a
>>>>>> house and no one in their right mind would suggest that it did not
>>>>> fall at
>>>>>> that time say between 8 am and 4 pm when there was no hole in the
>>>>> house,
>>>>>> yet it was not seen to fall.
>>>>>> An old rock found in a field does not suggest anything about fall
>>>>> date. So
>>>>>> it is a find, something never really argued against until now?
>>>>>> It has crust which can suggest it is not thousands of years old,
>>>>>> most
>>>>> of
>>>>>> our Springwater meteorites have black and blue crust but
>>>>>> nevertheless
>>>>> it
>>>>>> is a find.
>>>>>> Michael Farmer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 10:28 AM, <valparint at aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> An "unobserved fall" is, well, a fall that was not observed, in
>>>>>>> contradistinction to a fall that was observed. The terminology of
>>>>>>> the Meteoritical Bulletin Database is "Observed fall: no".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The information being conveyed is NOT that the meteorite fell but
>>>>> that
>>>>>>> the fall was not observed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In general, the questions about falling and finding are:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1) was the fall observed?
>>>>>>> 2) if so, when was it observed?
>>>>>>> 3) if not, is there any guesstimate of when it fell?
>>>>>>> 4) regardless of weather it was observed or not, when was it
>>>>>>> actually found?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paul Swartz
>>>>>>> MPOD webmaster
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What is an "unobserved fall"? Every meteorite fell at some
>>>>>>>> point. I
>>>>>>>> have thousands of unobserved falls in my collection.
>>>>>>>> Michael Farmer
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>
Received on Mon 07 Jan 2013 11:04:08 AM PST