[meteorite-list] ureilite for sale
From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2013 22:35:58 -0400 Message-ID: <CAKBPJW9hG-ZJh9m7W+3yJU9UM9+-5uae5iHM1LQBRBKFxZAg2w_at_mail.gmail.com> Hi List, Well said Graham. I feel the same way. I think it's pretty obvious when viewing offers from overseas wholesalers and hunters, which ones are legit. Abdelfattah is known to many members on this List, and so are many other Moroccan dealers and wholesalers. In fact, the legit Moroccan wholesalers have probably handled many more meteorites and meteorwrongs than most Western collectors or dealers. A experienced eye can spot features that may hint at what the petrologic type is. I think almost anyone can look at a highly-equilibrated chondrite and tell that it's a type 5, L or H. Plentiful chondrules showing through the matrix or outer surface hints at a type 3. Glossy, slick crust - probably an achondrite. How many times has a collector or dealer bought a stone at an unclassified chondrite price, only to win the "Moroccan Lottery" and score a planetary or other rare type. It's part of the game and the market, although it happens less frequently now because the hunters and wholesalers are more savvy now and can spot promising meteorites that may be a rare type. Self-pairing is rampant in the meteorite world. How much of the TONS of NWA 869 on the market has been classified? How about those little Nantan and Campo "crystals"? Are those analyzed by a lab? I could point out a respected dealer right now who is self-pairing everything from OC's to planetaries. I won't do it, because he's one of the most reliable and nicest dealers around. And, I respect his judgement. Apparently there is no problem with it, because nobody ever brings it up and he's a long-time member of the IMCA. The enforcement of the unspoken rule against self-pairing is arbitrary and mean-spirited at times. If we are going to drag Abdelfattah across the fire for offering a self-paired ureilite, then open the floodgates and crucify everyone who is doing it. Half of the dealers out there have self-paired at one time or another - maybe more than that. I don't endorse that and I do not agree with that practice, but it's a reality of the market and we turn a blind eye to some dealers for doing it while we call out others in public. It's not even-handed. Blaine Reed is now enduring a crapstorm of revenge because he stood up for the integrity of the market - frankly, that is something the IMCA could have done. It shouldn't have been up to Blaine to go out on his own dime and take up the cause of authenticity. Blaine now has an enemy for life because of his stand against self-pairing or self-classifications. Steve Curry got himself convicted of a criminal charge for doing something that is not different than what many List members do on a regular basis - they are just given a pass because they are well-known to most collectors and the material they are self-pairing is obvious unimportant meteorites like Campo and NWA 869. All of this discussion and insults could have been avoided if either : Abdelfattah had offered his stone as a "possible ureilite" or "possible achondrite", but also made it clear that the stone is still officially unclassified. Perhaps it was a language barrier at work here. Or, if we had treated his offer like the hundreds or thousands of others that are similar - here is my suspected meteorite, here are some photos of it, and contact me if you want to buy it. Nothing to get bent out of shape about. If Abdelfattah stands behind his material, then there is no issue. If he sells something as a ureilite, and it turns out to be something else, then a good dealer will stand behind that deal and offer to buy back the stone or send a refund. That is the nature of the business. There is no need to insult the man for it. I have seen some Moroccans on Facebook offering some obvious meteorwrongs for sale as meteorites and they are quite pushy about it sometimes. Abdelfattah is not one of those dealers. A measure of good judgement and experience with the market comes into play here. Newbies and people who haven't done their homework shouldn't be purchasing specimens unseen from overseas sources. Period. Best regards and ????? ????, MikeG -- ------------------------------------------------------------- Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone ------------------------------------------------------------- On 7/13/13, Graham Ensor <graham.ensor at gmail.com> wrote: > I cannot see anything wrong with people at source offering material > they think might be a certain classification/meteorite...that's how > the market has worked for years and most of the big dealers have > gambled on buying that way...many many exciting meteorites have come > out of NWA and elswhere that way...this has always happened and will > not stop....it is just up to each individual to judge how reliable and > professional or amateur the source is and then to get the material > checked out professionally classified themselves before offering it > further. It is quite possible to make accurate judgments about a > possible classification with enough experience. On one hunting trip I > found 3 meteorites that stood out from the rest, identifying them in > the field as a possible Ureilite, a CV3 and an L3. All have since been > officially classified as exactly what was written down in the field > notes. > > There will always be scammers, naive hopefuls and the delusioned but > they are usually easily spotted. It is obviously wise to buy properly > classified material from reputable dealers, especially when starting > out....but part of the later hobby/profession is the excitement of > taking a few gambles in order to find new or rarer material to be > studied that might add to science and meteoritics. > > I'm sure, Anne, that you were very careful who you bought slices of > Chelyabinsk from for making thin sections.....but I doubt that those > actual individual samples had been classified and that you relied on > the word of the hunter who obtained them and your own visual judgement > that they were Chelyabinsk? Exactly as I did. There were tables full > of Chelyabinsk in Ensisheim....at least that's what we all thought > they were? ;-) > > Graham > > On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 12:20 AM, abdelfattah gharrad > <life19maroc at yahoo.fr> wrote: >> Thanks for your note. >> if someone has been cheated by me. he should say to everyone here. I have >> my reputation (Alhamdolillah). >> Sincerely, >> Abdelfattah. >> >> >> >> ----- Mail original ----- >> De : Anne Black <impactika at aol.com> >> ? : bigjohnshea at yahoo.com; mike at meteoriteguy.com; life19maroc at yahoo.fr >> Cc : meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Envoy? le : Samedi 13 juillet 2013 19h19 >> Objet : Re: [meteorite-list] ureilite for sale >> >> I agree entirely with you John. >> >> I see almost daily on the MetList people selling all kinds of rare >> classifications, not just ureilite, but also carbonaceous, like, just a >> few weeks ago, CM, CO, and even a CO3.2!! not just CO, or CO3, but >> CO3.2!!!! >> This is outrageous, and ridiculous. There is no way to tell a >> classification that precisely without a lab, an electron microprobe, >> and an expert meteoriticist reading the results. >> To me this is totally unacceptable, and I most certainly would not buy >> that. In fact I do not even buy without proper provenance! >> Maybe I am difficult, but I'd rather say that I am very careful, and I >> want to protect, not just me but my clients too. >> >> Anne M. Black >> www.IMPACTIKA.com >> IMPACTIKA at aol.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: john shea <bigjohnshea at yahoo.com> >> To: mike <mike at meteoriteguy.com>; life19maroc <life19maroc at yahoo.fr>; >> impactika <impactika at aol.com> >> Cc: meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> >> Sent: Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:55 am >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ureilite for sale >> >> Anne and list, >> >> This has always perplexed me. >> How man people make a claim of a classification, particularly a rare >> one, without classifying it? Then every time I ask them about price, >> they expect me to pay the going rate for that classification on ebay? >> It has never made sense to me, and frankly, it has kept me from wanting >> to buy more specimens of this sort, because I feel like my chances of >> being multiply. >> Hope you are all well. >> Cheers, >> John >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> From: >> Anne Black >> <impactika at aol.com>; >> To: >> >> <mike at meteoriteguy.com>; <life19maroc at yahoo.fr>; >> >> Cc: >> >> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; >> >> Subject: >> Re: >> [meteorite-list] ureilite for sale >> Sent: >> Sat, Jul 13, 2013 >> 4:44:19 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Frankly I don't care who it is for sale to, what I want to know is: >> >> How do the seller know that it is a ureilite? >> Has it been classified? >> And by who? >> >> And No, I am certainly not buying without that information. >> >> >> Anne M. Black >> www.IMPACTIKA.com >> IMPACTIKA at aol.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Michael Farmer <mike at meteoriteguy.com> >> To: abdelfattah gharrad <life19maroc at yahoo.fr> >> Cc: meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> >> Sent: Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:40 am >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ureilite for sale >> >> >> I received it so it was sent to me as we'll. it is just strange to not >> just say >> for sale. Why for sale to only certain people? >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 13, 2013, at 12:24 PM, abdelfattah gharrad >> <life19maroc at yahoo.fr> wrote: >> >>> ????!!!! >>> >>> My message was sent to people who like ureilite not you. >>> >>> or you had nothing to do. >>> >>> ----- Mail original ----- >>> De : Michael Farmer <mike at meteoriteguy.com> >>> ? : abdelfattah gharrad <life19maroc at yahoo.fr> >>> Cc : "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" >> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> >>> Envoy? le : Samedi 13 juillet 2013 17h18 >>> Objet : Re: [meteorite-list] ureilite for sale >>> >>> Why amateurs? Fake? >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Jul 13, 2013, at 12:16 PM, abdelfattah gharrad >> <life19maroc at yahoo.fr> >> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> hello members list, >>>> >>>> amateurs interested to ureilite contact me please of list for >> pictures and >> price. >>>> Thanks, >>>> Abdelfattah. >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> ______________________________________________ >> >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> ______________________________________________ >> >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >Received on Sat 13 Jul 2013 10:35:58 PM PDT |
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