[meteorite-list] Re : debat , , monzogabbro /dolerite/ mare basalt/ lunar.

From: habibi abdelaziz <azizhabibi_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 06:03:14 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <424818.85422.qm_at_web62003.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

salut zelimir,and bonjour les listoides.

 
 
about the TKW of nwa 4734 = 477 habibi +895 oumama+ stefan ralew 40 gr or so.
total =1412 gr.
the stone is complete , so nothing missing, .you can see photo on oumama link.
 
on the pairing 25000km apart they should studies isotope of the two meteorite to see if they have the same ages , in space , and also the same ages in earth.
so to do that needs collaboration from the arctic team who ever owned the lap specimen and the nwa4734.
two sample from this two stone must be studies and compared to establish the launch-pairing.
and here i ask who is doing studies of ages in spaces an earth , is it always dr kisushumi,

and for any simple guy ,to see the photo of the two stone you will say they are the same paired.
*
outside all this fiction , those stone are among the best lunar that i have seen , many collector have slice or sample and they are very pretty and under microscope it's jewelry.
 
so the fact that many scientist didn't arrive to a compromise to give here a name satisfies my curiosity.
 
the first time i have seen this lunar , i sad this is shergotite, than once in my office under microscope i change completely the done. and spent two month dreaming.
 and i m still dreaming.
 
 
all the best
aziz habibi
 

 
<font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#40ffff;" face="comic sans ms">habibi aziz
box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco
phone. 21235576145
fax.21235576170</font>


----- Message d'origine ----
De : Zelimir Gabelica <Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr>
? : Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Cc : habibi abdelaziz <azizhabibi at yahoo.com>
Envoy? le : Mardi, 22 Janvier 2008, 17h39mn 16s
Objet : Re: [meteorite-list] debat , , monzogabbro /dolerite/ mare basalt/ lunar.

Hi Aziz, Martin,

Very interesting reading!
I have a couple of comments/questions though:

A) Comments:

1) Among the possible pairings cited in the web reference (and Met. Bull)
reported by Aziz, the NWA 773 is a norite and (from the pics in Met. Bull.)
has a slightly different texture than NWA 4734 (this latter obviously shows
more pronounced/distinct phenoclasts).
2) LAP 02234, also cited as possibly paired, should be wrong (mistyping ?)
as it is a LL6 (Met. Bull.)

B) My questions concerns the tkw:

1) The tkw as in Met. Bull. is reported as being of 477 g (Aziz's piece).
Why the are the 895 g that are with Oumama ignoired in this total ?

2) On the other hand, Martin reported that the tkw of "his" NWA 4734 (that
was offered for sale by end 2007) was of 1439 g, a weight (mass) that does
not correspond to the above cumulated total of 1372 g....

On the other hand, I agree that, before any firther detailed study of the
LAP samples, one should neither add their masses to the tkw of NWA 4734,
nor should be added those of NWA 032 or NWA 479 that, at least according to
the pics, obviously exhibit the very same texture (see pics in Met. Bull.),
but the question of the tkw of the sole NWA 4734 still remains open.


As noted by the comment of Albert Jambon to Aziz, the most puzzling enigma
would be to explain how rocks found 25,000 km apart, that by all means have
a quasi identical texture (see the LAP pics in Met. Bull.) can be paired.
I foresee an interesting folow-up in the future investigations...

Any firther comment or answer ?

Thanks and best wishes to all,

Zelimir

A 14:45 22/01/2008 +0100, Martin Altmann a ?crit :
>Hi Aziz,
>
>as shown on the pages of the links, you gave here,
>the chemistry is more or less identical with the LaPaz-pairing-group and NWA
>032/479.
>And the texture is the very same like the texture of the LAP-Moons.
>So from my amateurish point of view, I could imagine, that NWA 4734 could
>end with the same designation fo the type, as the LAP-group has in the
>Bulletins: "Lunar (basalt)".
>
>However. It's exciting material, isn't it?
>Best!
>Martin
>
>-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von habibi
>abdelaziz
>Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. Januar 2008 13:56
>An: meteorite list
>Betreff: [meteorite-list] debat , ,monzogabbro /dolerite/ mare basalt/
>lunar.
>
>hello list members ,
>
>well , i get just yet an email , about nwa 4734 classification obtain
>=lunar.
>not definitive il ya a parler.
>
>1= witch other stone stone is called only lunar,without suite;?
>2= first this stone was called monzogabbro than , American scientist call it
>mare basalt,
>3= than there was a proposition for dolerite
>4= the nomcom didn't retain any of this for the fact that there is not
>compromise they say it's a lunar and stop the issue is not finish,
>5= American scientist are talking about launch-pairing from ejecta, in
>other terms a paring from the moon from the crater, with lap
>02205-02224-02226-02234-02436-03632
>
>6= http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/stones/nwa4734.htm
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/chemclass/chemclass_lap02205.htm
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/sets/72157602531819147/
>7=i m happy with my half kilos lunar what ever the name is ,
>
>and here is a comment from dr jambon
>
>NWA 4734 : Lunar
>The appropriate classification for this rock is the subject of discussion
>between scientists. Its chemical composition is identical to LAP
>02205-02224-02226-02234-02436-03632 which have been classified as Mare
>basalt. The name basalt however is not appropriate as it is a coarse grained
>rock and the texture is isotropic unlike rapidly cooled rocks from lava
>flows (basalts).
>In the case of terrestrial rocks the name gabbro is usually completed by its
>subtype. The criteria used for classification are the modal composition and
>proportion of plagioclase/alkali feldspar and the amount of quartz. NWA 4734
>does not contain quartz but abundant silica instead (critobalite partly
>transformed by shock). This is due to the low pressure (low gravity) at the
>surface of the Moon. A similar terrestrial rock should be called quartz
>monzogabbro. For these reasons the Nom Com did not retain Mare basalt, but
>more simply Lunar, until the classification issue is settled.
>The nomenclature for Lunar rocks has been defined in the early seventies
>when studying the Apollo specimens. The nomenclature for terrestrial
>magmatic rocks has been published in 1976. Whether this classification can
>be used for Lunar rocks is the subject of debate; still similar names (e.g.
>basalts, gabbros etc) are used for both types of rocks.
>We must notice that among Lunar rocks most are breccias (e.g. Mare basalt
>Breccias); other basalts have typical quench textures (e.g. NWA 032/479).
>NWA 4734 is unique among Lunar meteorites (outside Antarctica) having a
>coarse grained magmatic texture (not brecciated). LAP samples share with NWA
>4734 a similar texture and a similar chemistry (Jambon et al. 2008) and
>poses the question of possible pairing for rocks found about 25 000 km
>apart.
>Albert JAMBON
>Laboratoire Magie
>Universit? Pierre et Marie Curie
>4 place jussieu 75252 Paris Cedex O5 Franc
>
>Streckeisen A. (1976) To each plutonic Rock its proper name. Earth Sci. Rev.
>12, 1-33
>
>____________________________________________________________________________
>_______
>
>my best
>aziz habibi
>
>habibi aziz
>box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco
>phone. 21235576145
>fax.21235576170</font>
>
>
>
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Prof. Zelimir Gabelica
Universit? de Haute Alsace
ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC,
3, Rue A. Werner,
F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France
Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94
Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15


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Received on Wed 23 Jan 2008 09:03:14 AM PST